Re: [messengers] to support or not to support

Date: 10 Apr 2010 18:25:56 +0200
From: john stillwell <stillbad@xxxxxxxxx>


k, I'll concede that with my mere 9 years on the job and 36 on the
planet..you win or whatever there but i never said you don't have a right to
an opinion either.

I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who will let any number of
things go in traffic in the name of keeping it together because it happens
around here too bloody often.
However, my tolerance for BLATANT ATTACKS which it seems this likely
was(yes, jury still out on this one) is less than nothing, I personally have
no qualms with responding in kind when I'm assaulted and the circumstances
warrant it.  Again, that response is really out of line if that's not the
situation(old lady doesn't see you, almost kills you...anger yes,
retaliatory attack, not so much) I've been hit intentionally as well as
being attacked by drivers wielding knives, "the club"s, golf clubs etc
usually just for being the guy on the bike when some complete douche feels
he needs to be in front of or on top of me more than anything in his effed
up little world. people like this are real and alarmingly numerous...calling
the cops sometimes works if you have what they think are legit witnesses or
you get a rare one who gives a damn(or bothers to show up...) but I say fuck
them, when they get the same treatment back with their self righteous anti
cycling or just selfishness bubble (and the glass and metal one around them)
popped, good, I love to see it happen. I've talked to people who had no idea
i was a bike messenger who have spouted to me of thier hate for cyclists and
share with me stories they thought would impress me about them running one
off the road or pulling a hhilarious stunt on one, always told with some
sickening kind of pride....boo-urns to them, let them get theirs however it
should happen...
- Show quoted text -





On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Joel Metz <magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> im offended that you think i dont realize that difference after 15+ years
> working as a messenger (and moving up on nearly 40 as a cyclist real quick
> here). sheesh. ive had cars/drivers do everything from flip me off, to
> shoot me in the side with an air gun, to hit me and send me to hospital. i
> *know* that a bike swiping a car is VERY different from a car swiping a
> bike.
>
> what im talking about is the *reaction*. flying into a rage should not be
> considered an acceptable reaction to being sideswiped, on one side or the
> other.
>
> and yeah, you SHOULD just stop and think "no worries, it's just my life
> that driver almost took, just my life, breeaaaaathe....". yes, you should.
> maybe not so much emphasis on the "just my life" bit, but stopping and
> thinking aint such a bad thing, eh?
>
> i dont like that it does, but perzeus reaction reflects poorly on ALL of
> us. i dont typically buy into the whole "scofflaw cyclists make it worse
> for all of us" malarkey - but in road rage reactions like these - and
> yeah, im calling perzeus reaction what it is, road rage, regardless of
> what precipitated the whole incident - i do believe it does. no one on the
> car side of the equation here is walking away from this thinking he had an
> excellent point, and maybe theyll be more careful around us next time, out
> of a sense of either fear or responsibility. theyre just that much more
> convinced of us being jackasses who go off half-cocked. and we keep
> handing them more material.
>
> -joel
>
>
>
> > it's a slightly different and more rationally affecting thing when a big
> > hunk of metal is used against the fragile safety of a cyclist, than when
> a
> > cyclist offends the tough exterior(paint, mirrors) of a car.
> > It's not a double standard, because it's not the same thing.
> > i'm offended by your implication that they are the same and that maybe we
> > should just stop and think, "no worries, it's just my life that driver
> > almost took, just my life, breeaaaaathe...."
> > good on him for tearing right into that car and putting that same fear
> > into
> > that fucker who probably thought that fuckin' little mosquito cyclist
> > would
> > probably never catch up to his him anyway.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Joel Metz <magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >
> >> sorry, but i just cant agree with you there.
> >>
> >> the instant Perseus chased the car down, got all smashy on the
> >> windshield
> >> and beat the crap out of the driver, he lost my support and sympathy,
> >> REGARDLESS of what precipitated the incident.
> >>
> >> had the situation been flipped, and perzeus has clipped the car, then
> >> been
> >> chased down by the driver, knocked off his bike and beaten up, you know
> >> what wed sll be thinking - and we would be justified in it. the blatant
> >> double standard being proposed here is BULLSHIT.
> >>
> >> someone being a messenger, part of the community, is NOT a free pass for
> >> this kind of reaction.
> >>
> >> -joel
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > I have been clipped numerous times and hit and hospitalized three
> >> times
> >> in
> >> > thirty five years...I fully advocate a show of support and solidarity.
> >> The
> >> > lone cyclist is a target for any cage jockey with a bad attitude. Road
> >> > rage focuses on the easy target. had perzeus not had eye witnesses
> >> > mohammed would have pressed charges. And even though the charges are
> >> > "minimal" Perzeus will still have lost wages and is susceptible to
> >> civil
> >> > charges for the damage done. The last time I was hit was not an
> >> accident,
> >> > the asswipe very deliberately clipped me while cursing me through a
> >> > partially open window. had my wheel not been rendered unridable I
> >> would
> >> > certainly have tried to run him down and 'zeus his dumb ass. A show of
> >> > solidarity is in order...my vote
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Messengers mailing list
> >> > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> >> > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> joel metz : magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx : http://www.blackbirdsf.org/
> >> magpie messenger collective   :    http://magpiemessenger.com/
> >> ==
> >>          i know what innocence looks like - and it wasn't there,
> >>                                after she got that bicycle...
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Messengers mailing list
> >> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> >> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -john
> >
>
>
> --
> joel metz : magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx : http://www.blackbirdsf.org/
> magpie messenger collective   :    http://magpiemessenger.com/
> ==
>          i know what innocence looks like - and it wasn't there,
>                                after she got that bicycle...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Messengers mailing list
> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>



-- 
-john

On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Joel Metz <magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> im offended that you think i dont realize that difference after 15+ years
> working as a messenger (and moving up on nearly 40 as a cyclist real quick
> here). sheesh. ive had cars/drivers do everything from flip me off, to
> shoot me in the side with an air gun, to hit me and send me to hospital. i
> *know* that a bike swiping a car is VERY different from a car swiping a
> bike.
>
> what im talking about is the *reaction*. flying into a rage should not be
> considered an acceptable reaction to being sideswiped, on one side or the
> other.
>
> and yeah, you SHOULD just stop and think "no worries, it's just my life
> that driver almost took, just my life, breeaaaaathe....". yes, you should.
> maybe not so much emphasis on the "just my life" bit, but stopping and
> thinking aint such a bad thing, eh?
>
> i dont like that it does, but perzeus reaction reflects poorly on ALL of
> us. i dont typically buy into the whole "scofflaw cyclists make it worse
> for all of us" malarkey - but in road rage reactions like these - and
> yeah, im calling perzeus reaction what it is, road rage, regardless of
> what precipitated the whole incident - i do believe it does. no one on the
> car side of the equation here is walking away from this thinking he had an
> excellent point, and maybe theyll be more careful around us next time, out
> of a sense of either fear or responsibility. theyre just that much more
> convinced of us being jackasses who go off half-cocked. and we keep
> handing them more material.
>
> -joel
>
>
>
> > it's a slightly different and more rationally affecting thing when a big
> > hunk of metal is used against the fragile safety of a cyclist, than when
> a
> > cyclist offends the tough exterior(paint, mirrors) of a car.
> > It's not a double standard, because it's not the same thing.
> > i'm offended by your implication that they are the same and that maybe we
> > should just stop and think, "no worries, it's just my life that driver
> > almost took, just my life, breeaaaaathe...."
> > good on him for tearing right into that car and putting that same fear
> > into
> > that fucker who probably thought that fuckin' little mosquito cyclist
> > would
> > probably never catch up to his him anyway.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Joel Metz <magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >
> >> sorry, but i just cant agree with you there.
> >>
> >> the instant Perseus chased the car down, got all smashy on the
> >> windshield
> >> and beat the crap out of the driver, he lost my support and sympathy,
> >> REGARDLESS of what precipitated the incident.
> >>
> >> had the situation been flipped, and perzeus has clipped the car, then
> >> been
> >> chased down by the driver, knocked off his bike and beaten up, you know
> >> what wed sll be thinking - and we would be justified in it. the blatant
> >> double standard being proposed here is BULLSHIT.
> >>
> >> someone being a messenger, part of the community, is NOT a free pass for
> >> this kind of reaction.
> >>
> >> -joel
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > I have been clipped numerous times and hit and hospitalized three
> >> times
> >> in
> >> > thirty five years...I fully advocate a show of support and solidarity.
> >> The
> >> > lone cyclist is a target for any cage jockey with a bad attitude. Road
> >> > rage focuses on the easy target. had perzeus not had eye witnesses
> >> > mohammed would have pressed charges. And even though the charges are
> >> > "minimal" Perzeus will still have lost wages and is susceptible to
> >> civil
> >> > charges for the damage done. The last time I was hit was not an
> >> accident,
> >> > the asswipe very deliberately clipped me while cursing me through a
> >> > partially open window. had my wheel not been rendered unridable I
> >> would
> >> > certainly have tried to run him down and 'zeus his dumb ass. A show of
> >> > solidarity is in order...my vote
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Messengers mailing list
> >> > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> >> > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> joel metz : magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx : http://www.blackbirdsf.org/
> >> magpie messenger collective   :    http://magpiemessenger.com/
> >> ==
> >>          i know what innocence looks like - and it wasn't there,
> >>                                after she got that bicycle...
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Messengers mailing list
> >> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> >> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -john
> >
>
>
> --
> joel metz : magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx : http://www.blackbirdsf.org/
> magpie messenger collective   :    http://magpiemessenger.com/
> ==
>          i know what innocence looks like - and it wasn't there,
>                                after she got that bicycle...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Messengers mailing list
> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>



-- 
-john