Re: [messengers] Fwd: Fwd: WBAB

Date: 10 Jun 2010 19:44:01 +0200
From: Julio Saravia <saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>


you know...last years naccc in boston was basically a big alleycat.  that is
all...peace.

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 9:13 AM, sinya <sinya@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> "As for me, I'd stay with the closed course concept, let alleycats stay
> underground. At this point it's only an idea, I wanted to do a closed
> course race maybe at extreme locations. That can keep a sponsor happy
> and a race interesting. ECMC was great at the factory and I suppose
> every city can come up with a good place to race.
> Lot of you are talking about selling out but I think if anyone knows
> Kole s/he knows that the last thing he would do is a sellout. Keep in
> mind WBAB is not an annual event, we don't have to organize it at all
> costs. If we can't come up with enough supporters or enough money
> we'll leave it like that. It's not like anyone would complain about
> WBAB not happening next year, or ever for that matter. And what is a
> sellout anyway? If I take a look at he flyer of the Lausanne
> GlobalGutz alleycat I would think they sold out the race. Or maybe
> it's just a very sophisticated joke that I don't get.
> My only concern is time, I think no messenger can travel around for a
> month for races and a tight schedule can kill the party.
>
> g a.k.a. 9.81"
>
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:34 PM, sinya <sinya@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Michael Dodd <mikeydodds@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: 2010/6/10
> > Subject: Re: [messengers] Fwd: WBAB
>  > To: stefan vis <fishmeisterasd@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Cc: sinya <sinya@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Messenger list <messengers@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >
> > Alleycats are underground for a reason, they are illegal.
> >
> > I also agree with AZ that bigger is not better (especially when it comes
> to
> > alleycats.)
> >
> > If you sell alleycats as orienteering events and make them legal then in
> my
> > eyes they become relatively lame, boring and not that appealing to
> sponsors.
> >
> > My opinion is that closed course races should be live traffic races (but
> > without automobiles). Closed course races should be multi directional.
> they
> > should have intersections and possibly even road rules, you could have
> right
> > of way and you could disqualify people who's incompetence causes carnage
> or
> > does something of the sort. It could be fairly entertaining and
> marketable.
> >
> > If you want to go bigger and mainstream you should not be doing races on
> > public streets, The last thing the messenger community needs is footage
> of
> > some wanker cyclist who thinks he's "badass" nailing a pedestrian or
> putting
> > himself under an automobile on mtv.
> >
> > Other than that i think your onto something with the multi city idea.
> >
> > We currently have the CMWC, ECMC and the NACCC's, These events could
> fairly
> > easily combine into one championship circuit.
> >
> > What would we need to do that? Someone would need some guidelines, some
> > money, some power, some authority and some control.
> >
> > Is that what the community wants?
> >
> > Currently the IFBMA Mission Statement is only...
> > 1. To ensure the successful realization of an annual Cycle Messenger
> World
> > Championships.
> > 2. To foster a spirit of cooperation and community amongst bicycle
> > messengers worldwide.
> > 3. To promote the use of pedal power for commercial purposes.
> >
> > Spare time is hard to come by but if its what the community wants and
> > somebody wants to put me on their payroll i'll help make it happen.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 9:50 PM, stefan vis <fishmeisterasd@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> and by the way, my girl and me agree that an alleycat is a spontaneous
> >> courier event and also one of messenger's many own cultural things. so i
> >> think its nto good to sell this concept out otherwise it will be
> >> controlled
> >> more and thats not what we should want.
> >>
> >> so if anything is brought to media, it should be, in my eyes, and purely
> >> to
> >> give people the chance to travel for free by sponsorship, held on a
> closed
> >> course where we can learn from bmx, skateboard and snowboard events, but
> >> keep our culture for ourselves.
> >>
> >> you could say it selling out, but if it works it could also be a pay off
> >> for
> >> years of hard work on a volunteer base. and its a good platform to show
> >> the
> >> world how we work but in race style and i think it might boost messenger
> >> economy, which is good for all, for the messenger work but also the
> >> messengers who went into framebuilding and the few who have a dream
> about
> >> a
> >> messenger racing carreer...
> >>
> >> if this works the human powered rollercoaster could even come back...
> >>
> >> anyway, i know its nice to see bunch of regular racers compete against
> >> locals, but thats too scetchy. if all this could result in closing off a
> >> whole neighborhood in your city, so the racecourse is fairly big, it
> could
> >> still be locals against regulars...
> >>
> >> i hope on more comments, also people who are really against any form of
> >> 'selling out'...
> >>
> >> if this is going to be happening i would like to do it in amsterdam....
> >> but
> >> also help out with the whole tour if needed.
> >>
> >>
> >> fish
> >>
> >>
> >> 2010/6/9 stefan vis <fishmeisterasd@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >> > so an alleycat tour? don't you think that would mostly attract non
> >> > couriers
> >> > who make a sport out of alleycat racing without any traffic experience
> >> > but
> >> > with a lot of funds and sponsors to buy the tickets from companies who
> >> > initially weren't interested in sponsoring a messenger because they
> are
> >> > too
> >> > hardcore? and also most of the couriers are not interested in
> >> > sponsorships
> >> > anyway...
> >> >
> >> > im all for, but keep in mind that races in live traffic are
> >> > dangerous(not
> >> > that i am a pussy or whatever, setting up one of the most dangerous
> >> > events
> >> > in my carreer... fix rookie exile in paris) and also keep in mind that
> >> > companies using bikemessengers also watch mtv or eurosport and if
> those
> >> > broadcasts have a negative effect on work worldwide and the impression
> >> > on
> >> > bikemessengers in general, i would reconsider the set up to smaller
> >> > scale
> >> > closed courses of course with my racing system...(hehe) or andy
> >> > zalan's...
> >> > in that way money's from whatever commercial party are well spend on
> >> > researching race systems for more interesting and less frustrating
> races
> >> > to
> >> > be used as championships, not to mention it getting easier to arrange
> >> > awesome racesites for the pre events and the championships.
> >> >
> >> > kai hawaii, hattara, jenz and me (fish) (and probably others too)have
> >> > been
> >> > talking about events that are self supporting. in my last talks to
> >> > hattara
> >> > we came up with a team race system with races that can last up to a
> >> > workday... in live traffic, otherwise its too boring. downside is what
> i
> >> > mentioned above but at the other hand, intesting for television, as
> the
> >> > first part of the race will be impossible to follow and the second
> part
> >> > is a
> >> > reaal race and you can see people racing eachother (like my
> >> > championshipconcept). but it takes a huge production with helmetcams
> and
> >> > shit. and as i said im not sure if it will put the bikemessenger in a
> >> > positive light, taken that   messers dont stop for traffic and cameras
> >> > expose you to the world so also your flaws will show. but it will also
> >> > show
> >> > the behaviour of other road users and that might work in our favour...
> >> >
> >> > anyway in however form it might happen, individual or team, we have
> the
> >> > concept and im sure it works...
> >> > but the racers have to be insured for this and that should come from a
> >> > sponsor. racers should be real bikemessengers with the right
> experience,
> >> > and
> >> > they cannot be drunk during the races. this is bad for how people see
> us
> >> > and
> >> > that rep is not very positive, given that sponsors think we are either
> >> > passe
> >> > or too hardcore. and you might loose work, and not only you but also
> >> > messengers who have nothing to do with racing or the community.
> >> >
> >> > so i would say, closed courses, use the experience and the sponsor
> >> > opportunities to find awesome spots, include the worlds in the
> schedule,
> >> > and
> >> > create races that cannot dissappoint any racer and that are
> interesting
> >> > to
> >> > race.
> >> >
> >> > i am going to test the preliminairy concept for the warsaw race this
> >> > juli
> >> > in rotterdam during the open dutch championships, this is a race using
> a
> >> > tested concept but slimmed down in checkpoints but added 2 guerilla
> >> > races
> >> > within the race, and i believe these possiblilities are endless, as
> long
> >> > as
> >> > you follow the main race concept... i have the chance to test and i
> know
> >> > it
> >> > will work...
> >> >
> >> > fish.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 2010/6/9 sinya <sinya@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >
> >> > YOUR OPINION IS...?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> TO: IFBMA MEMBERS
> >> >>
> >> >> Those who attended ECMC 2010 Budapest might have heard the organizers
> >> >> mutter something about how never again will they organize a big scale
> >> >> messenger event in their city.
> >> >> Well...
> >> >>
> >> >> Instead, for the Warsaw World's next year, I proposed to them the
> idea
> >> >> of the WBAB (World's Biggest Alleycat, Bitchezzz!)... The biggest
> >> >> pre-event ever.
> >> >> Fortunately, or unfortunately , they happen to like the idea, and
> >> >> seeing how well they organized ECMC2010, not to mention CMWC2001, I
> >> >> have all the faith that, if we put our minds to it, it can happen.
> >> >>
> >> >> To that end, we present the idea to you, the IFBMA community, so that
> >> >> you can offer your ideas and insight.
> >> >>
> >> >> The original idea was to incorporate a multi.city alleycat,
> comprising
> >> >> of Montreal, Bordeaux and Budapest, ending in Warsaw in time for the
> >> >> world event.
> >> >>
> >> >> Since then, we have made an interim itinerary hoping to include New
> >> >> York and/or DC, Ottawa and/or Toronto, Paris, Bordeaux, Geneva,
> Basel,
> >> >> Z├╝rich, Salzburg and/or Vienna, Budapest, Bratislava and/or Prague,
> >> >> maybe Berlin, and of course Warsaw.
> >> >>
> >> >> The end result would be... the World's Biggest Alleycat. There would
> >> >> be an alleycat event in each city with prizes, perhaps, for fastest
> >> >> local, fastest out of towner, but most importantly, fastest WBABer,
> >> >> that core group of riders that started the event in Montreal.
> >> >>
> >> >> The bigger this idea gets, the more we have need of sponsors, which
> is
> >> >> our first big hurdle... (hopefully MTV, or Eurosport 2, or Discovery
> >> >> can document (i.e. pay) the whole thing). (My first idea was that the
> >> >> prize in each city would be a working jersey from one of that town's
> >> >> companies.) Other concerns would be, emergency medical assistance,
> and
> >> >> the legality of the courses (especially for the concern of sponsors),
> >> >> ... And most importantly, logistics... Travel concerns and time
> >> >> duration. All of these (and more) will have to be worked out. But, it
> >> >> is an exciting prospect, so I, and the Budapest/Montreal courier
> >> >> communities present this idea to you.
> >> >> Bottom line... Whaddayathink?
> >> >>
> >> >> Presented by: Kole Kerr, Sinya and 9.81
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
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> >
> >
> >
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