Re: [messengers] Fwd: Fwd: WBAB

Date: 6 Jul 2010 18:24:05 +0200
From: "andy duncan" <mcbstrd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>


For the sceptics ....

Fish demonstrated his system last Sunday with great success. There is no doubt that it works very well and that there is plenty of room within the general concept for the creativity of individual race designers to flourish. It was both a whole bunch of fun and as well as a good test of messenger skills.

A few tweeks with the ranking procedures and bookkeeping and it would get my vote as the "official" championship race structure.

Goed bezig Vis .... !!

love and peace,

AD 

--- fishmeisterasd@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

From: stefan vis <fishmeisterasd@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Julio Saravia <saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: KissG <gabor.kiss@xxxxxxxxx>, Messenger list <messengers@xxxxxxxxx>,	hysterikole <hysterikole@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [messengers] Fwd: Fwd: WBAB
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 21:04:29 +0200

my race concept is two way, has short manifests (3 to 4 pickups), 120 drops,
is partly individual and partly traceable, that means people find eachother
racing eachother.
within the race could be multiple 'pirate' or 'guerilla' races, so more fun
for people. im going to try out the 'preliminairy' race, a slimmed down
version of the full championship race, with 2 additional races weaved into
the main event, at the open dutch bike messenger championship in 3 weeks
from now.

next year in warsawi hope to take all of it in full swing... everything
should be tested by then and those who raced my race before liked it very
much.

i want to explain this race in guatemala...

@ andy, did you receive my mail?


fish

2010/6/10 Julio Saravia <saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>

> you know...last years naccc in boston was basically a big alleycat.  that
> is
> all...peace.
>
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 9:13 AM, sinya <sinya@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > "As for me, I'd stay with the closed course concept, let alleycats stay
> > underground. At this point it's only an idea, I wanted to do a closed
> > course race maybe at extreme locations. That can keep a sponsor happy
> > and a race interesting. ECMC was great at the factory and I suppose
> > every city can come up with a good place to race.
> > Lot of you are talking about selling out but I think if anyone knows
> > Kole s/he knows that the last thing he would do is a sellout. Keep in
> > mind WBAB is not an annual event, we don't have to organize it at all
> > costs. If we can't come up with enough supporters or enough money
> > we'll leave it like that. It's not like anyone would complain about
> > WBAB not happening next year, or ever for that matter. And what is a
> > sellout anyway? If I take a look at he flyer of the Lausanne
> > GlobalGutz alleycat I would think they sold out the race. Or maybe
> > it's just a very sophisticated joke that I don't get.
> > My only concern is time, I think no messenger can travel around for a
> > month for races and a tight schedule can kill the party.
> >
> > g a.k.a. 9.81"
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:34 PM, sinya <sinya@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > From: Michael Dodd <mikeydodds@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > Date: 2010/6/10
> > > Subject: Re: [messengers] Fwd: WBAB
> >  > To: stefan vis <fishmeisterasd@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > Cc: sinya <sinya@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Messenger list <
> messengers@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >
> > >
> > > Alleycats are underground for a reason, they are illegal.
> > >
> > > I also agree with AZ that bigger is not better (especially when it
> comes
> > to
> > > alleycats.)
> > >
> > > If you sell alleycats as orienteering events and make them legal then
> in
> > my
> > > eyes they become relatively lame, boring and not that appealing to
> > sponsors.
> > >
> > > My opinion is that closed course races should be live traffic races
> (but
> > > without automobiles). Closed course races should be multi directional.
> > they
> > > should have intersections and possibly even road rules, you could have
> > right
> > > of way and you could disqualify people who's incompetence causes
> carnage
> > or
> > > does something of the sort. It could be fairly entertaining and
> > marketable.
> > >
> > > If you want to go bigger and mainstream you should not be doing races
> on
> > > public streets, The last thing the messenger community needs is footage
> > of
> > > some wanker cyclist who thinks he's "badass" nailing a pedestrian or
> > putting
> > > himself under an automobile on mtv.
> > >
> > > Other than that i think your onto something with the multi city idea.
> > >
> > > We currently have the CMWC, ECMC and the NACCC's, These events could
> > fairly
> > > easily combine into one championship circuit.
> > >
> > > What would we need to do that? Someone would need some guidelines, some
> > > money, some power, some authority and some control.
> > >
> > > Is that what the community wants?
> > >
> > > Currently the IFBMA Mission Statement is only...
> > > 1. To ensure the successful realization of an annual Cycle Messenger
> > World
> > > Championships.
> > > 2. To foster a spirit of cooperation and community amongst bicycle
> > > messengers worldwide.
> > > 3. To promote the use of pedal power for commercial purposes.
> > >
> > > Spare time is hard to come by but if its what the community wants and
> > > somebody wants to put me on their payroll i'll help make it happen.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 9:50 PM, stefan vis <fishmeisterasd@xxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> and by the way, my girl and me agree that an alleycat is a spontaneous
> > >> courier event and also one of messenger's many own cultural things. so
> i
> > >> think its nto good to sell this concept out otherwise it will be
> > >> controlled
> > >> more and thats not what we should want.
> > >>
> > >> so if anything is brought to media, it should be, in my eyes, and
> purely
> > >> to
> > >> give people the chance to travel for free by sponsorship, held on a
> > closed
> > >> course where we can learn from bmx, skateboard and snowboard events,
> but
> > >> keep our culture for ourselves.
> > >>
> > >> you could say it selling out, but if it works it could also be a pay
> off
> > >> for
> > >> years of hard work on a volunteer base. and its a good platform to
> show
> > >> the
> > >> world how we work but in race style and i think it might boost
> messenger
> > >> economy, which is good for all, for the messenger work but also the
> > >> messengers who went into framebuilding and the few who have a dream
> > about
> > >> a
> > >> messenger racing carreer...
> > >>
> > >> if this works the human powered rollercoaster could even come back...
> > >>
> > >> anyway, i know its nice to see bunch of regular racers compete against
> > >> locals, but thats too scetchy. if all this could result in closing off
> a
> > >> whole neighborhood in your city, so the racecourse is fairly big, it
> > could
> > >> still be locals against regulars...
> > >>
> > >> i hope on more comments, also people who are really against any form
> of
> > >> 'selling out'...
> > >>
> > >> if this is going to be happening i would like to do it in
> amsterdam....
> > >> but
> > >> also help out with the whole tour if needed.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> fish
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 2010/6/9 stefan vis <fishmeisterasd@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >>
> > >> > so an alleycat tour? don't you think that would mostly attract non
> > >> > couriers
> > >> > who make a sport out of alleycat racing without any traffic
> experience
> > >> > but
> > >> > with a lot of funds and sponsors to buy the tickets from companies
> who
> > >> > initially weren't interested in sponsoring a messenger because they
> > are
> > >> > too
> > >> > hardcore? and also most of the couriers are not interested in
> > >> > sponsorships
> > >> > anyway...
> > >> >
> > >> > im all for, but keep in mind that races in live traffic are
> > >> > dangerous(not
> > >> > that i am a pussy or whatever, setting up one of the most dangerous
> > >> > events
> > >> > in my carreer... fix rookie exile in paris) and also keep in mind
> that
> > >> > companies using bikemessengers also watch mtv or eurosport and if
> > those
> > >> > broadcasts have a negative effect on work worldwide and the
> impression
> > >> > on
> > >> > bikemessengers in general, i would reconsider the set up to smaller
> > >> > scale
> > >> > closed courses of course with my racing system...(hehe) or andy
> > >> > zalan's...
> > >> > in that way money's from whatever commercial party are well spend on
> > >> > researching race systems for more interesting and less frustrating
> > races
> > >> > to
> > >> > be used as championships, not to mention it getting easier to
> arrange
> > >> > awesome racesites for the pre events and the championships.
> > >> >
> > >> > kai hawaii, hattara, jenz and me (fish) (and probably others
> too)have
> > >> > been
> > >> > talking about events that are self supporting. in my last talks to
> > >> > hattara
> > >> > we came up with a team race system with races that can last up to a
> > >> > workday... in live traffic, otherwise its too boring. downside is
> what
> > i
> > >> > mentioned above but at the other hand, intesting for television, as
> > the
> > >> > first part of the race will be impossible to follow and the second
> > part
> > >> > is a
> > >> > reaal race and you can see people racing eachother (like my
> > >> > championshipconcept). but it takes a huge production with helmetcams
> > and
> > >> > shit. and as i said im not sure if it will put the bikemessenger in
> a
> > >> > positive light, taken that   messers dont stop for traffic and
> cameras
> > >> > expose you to the world so also your flaws will show. but it will
> also
> > >> > show
> > >> > the behaviour of other road users and that might work in our
> favour...
> > >> >
> > >> > anyway in however form it might happen, individual or team, we have
> > the
> > >> > concept and im sure it works...
> > >> > but the racers have to be insured for this and that should come from
> a
> > >> > sponsor. racers should be real bikemessengers with the right
> > experience,
> > >> > and
> > >> > they cannot be drunk during the races. this is bad for how people
> see
> > us
> > >> > and
> > >> > that rep is not very positive, given that sponsors think we are
> either
> > >> > passe
> > >> > or too hardcore. and you might loose work, and not only you but also
> > >> > messengers who have nothing to do with racing or the community.
> > >> >
> > >> > so i would say, closed courses, use the experience and the sponsor
> > >> > opportunities to find awesome spots, include the worlds in the
> > schedule,
> > >> > and
> > >> > create races that cannot dissappoint any racer and that are
> > interesting
> > >> > to
> > >> > race.
> > >> >
> > >> > i am going to test the preliminairy concept for the warsaw race this
> > >> > juli
> > >> > in rotterdam during the open dutch championships, this is a race
> using
> > a
> > >> > tested concept but slimmed down in checkpoints but added 2 guerilla
> > >> > races
> > >> > within the race, and i believe these possiblilities are endless, as
> > long
> > >> > as
> > >> > you follow the main race concept... i have the chance to test and i
> > know
> > >> > it
> > >> > will work...
> > >> >
> > >> > fish.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > 2010/6/9 sinya <sinya@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >> >
> > >> > YOUR OPINION IS...?
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> TO: IFBMA MEMBERS
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Those who attended ECMC 2010 Budapest might have heard the
> organizers
> > >> >> mutter something about how never again will they organize a big
> scale
> > >> >> messenger event in their city.
> > >> >> Well...
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Instead, for the Warsaw World's next year, I proposed to them the
> > idea
> > >> >> of the WBAB (World's Biggest Alleycat, Bitchezzz!)... The biggest
> > >> >> pre-event ever.
> > >> >> Fortunately, or unfortunately , they happen to like the idea, and
> > >> >> seeing how well they organized ECMC2010, not to mention CMWC2001, I
> > >> >> have all the faith that, if we put our minds to it, it can happen.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> To that end, we present the idea to you, the IFBMA community, so
> that
> > >> >> you can offer your ideas and insight.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The original idea was to incorporate a multi.city alleycat,
> > comprising
> > >> >> of Montreal, Bordeaux and Budapest, ending in Warsaw in time for
> the
> > >> >> world event.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Since then, we have made an interim itinerary hoping to include New
> > >> >> York and/or DC, Ottawa and/or Toronto, Paris, Bordeaux, Geneva,
> > Basel,
> > >> >> Z├╝rich, Salzburg and/or Vienna, Budapest, Bratislava and/or Prague,
> > >> >> maybe Berlin, and of course Warsaw.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The end result would be... the World's Biggest Alleycat. There
> would
> > >> >> be an alleycat event in each city with prizes, perhaps, for fastest
> > >> >> local, fastest out of towner, but most importantly, fastest WBABer,
> > >> >> that core group of riders that started the event in Montreal.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The bigger this idea gets, the more we have need of sponsors, which
> > is
> > >> >> our first big hurdle... (hopefully MTV, or Eurosport 2, or
> Discovery
> > >> >> can document (i.e. pay) the whole thing). (My first idea was that
> the
> > >> >> prize in each city would be a working jersey from one of that
> town's
> > >> >> companies.) Other concerns would be, emergency medical assistance,
> > and
> > >> >> the legality of the courses (especially for the concern of
> sponsors),
> > >> >> ... And most importantly, logistics... Travel concerns and time
> > >> >> duration. All of these (and more) will have to be worked out. But,
> it
> > >> >> is an exciting prospect, so I, and the Budapest/Montreal courier
> > >> >> communities present this idea to you.
> > >> >> Bottom line... Whaddayathink?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Presented by: Kole Kerr, Sinya and 9.81
> > >> >> _______________________________________________
> > >> >> Messengers mailing list
> > >> >> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > >> >> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Messengers mailing list
> > >> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > >> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Messengers mailing list
> > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> >
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