Re: [messengers] Use of likeness without permission (epilogue)

Date: 2 Dec 2010 20:07:25 +0100
From: "Joel Metz" <magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>


oh, yes, absolutely. i will not, under any circumstances, contradict you
when you say that "just because something is legal doesnt make it right".

but also i will add that just because you CAN work the system to get
something you want doesnt mean youre entitled to it. frankly, i see this
whole thing as an extension of the typical messenger "i deserve free/cheap
parts from the industry cause im a messenger" attitude. ill wholeheartedly
congratulate those who manage to work that angle, but never for a moment
will i agree that it was owed to them.

kenda was "working an angle to make a buck" off what they reasonably
thought was legitimately fair use unidentifiable photo of a man on the
street (and it remains so) - corey was working an angle similarly on
behalf of marco. nothing implicitly wrong with working an angle - were all
doing it. i will continue to get a chuckle at the seemingly off-held
notion that its bad form for a corporation to make a buck off you, but
totally ok if they throw you a shiny bauble in return.

nice demo of godwin's law, by the way. :)

-joel


> I applaud you Corey, good lookin out for a fellow courier.
>
> While I fully understand everybody's "legality" stance, I still hold
> on to the ideal that just because something is "legal" does not make
> it "right"
>
> I think we should thank people like Corey who have the stones to stand
> up and make some noise when they see a CORPORATION, or ARTIST taking
> every advantage possible to make a buck. Let them know, or who knows
> where they'll stop.
>
> my 2 pennies.
>
> -Stewy
>
> "Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal."
> --Martin Luther King
>
> (I'm making no attempt at comparing the Holocaust with Marco's dorky
> picture... I'm sure somebody would have commented to such... I'm just
> saying. Marco, really, orange and blue and red and sooo many colors in
> that Pic... I'm actually surprised a company would use that.)
>
> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Julio Saravia <saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>> not too long ago a florida man got about 3 mil from mcdonalds or some
>> fast
>> food joint because when he bit into the burger it squirted hot greese on
>> him
>> and he suffered burns.  im not saying...im just saying...peace.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Julio Saravia
>> <saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> "golf clap"...yay!  while i applaud corey for his contined efforts to
>>> destroy "da man" and thank him for a lot of entertainment while at work
>>> i
>>> anxiously await an answer to a good question by roy.  please wait to
>>> reply
>>> until after my popcorn is done...thanks.
>>>
>>> el dispatcher,
>>> ~j.dot
>>>
>>>   On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:20 AM, Roy Wilkie <roy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you take a look through stock photo collections you'll find plenty
>>>> of
>>>> real life photos taken of construction workers, police, airlines ramp
>>>> agents, etc. I'm sure they were never compensated for.  What's the
>>>> difference between you and them?  If they blurred his face it was out
>>>> of
>>>> consideration the privacy of this anonymous working man on a public
>>>> street
>>>> and it would make more sense to be grateful than indignant.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 08:19 -0500, "Corey Hilliard" <
>>>> coreythecourier@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> > I thank those of you that responded for your letters to Kenda and
>>>> emails
>>>> > to
>>>> > me about your opinions in addressing this matter.
>>>> >
>>>> > Viewpoints fell into a few categories on the Marco versus
>>>> > KendaTires/Shutterstock.com/"S.V. Luma" affair:
>>>> >
>>>> > Kenda tires, a big corporation, is exploiting the little guy. Let's
>>>> > boycott
>>>> > their product, hitting them in the pocket.
>>>> > The face in the photo was blurred and unrecognizable.
>>>> Shutterstock.com
>>>> > and
>>>> > the photographer had every legal right to sell the photo, Kenda
>>>> Tires
>>>> the
>>>> > right to use it for advertising.
>>>> > Corey, you have a big mouth and may have smeared the reputation of
>>>> the
>>>> > wrong
>>>> > person by crying wolf.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Now that Kenda has agreed to take care of Marco when he contacts
>>>> them, I
>>>> > feel justified for making lots of noise. I am not excited about
>>>> being
>>>> > responsible for temporarily tarnishing the image of Kenda Tires. On
>>>> > reflection, they responded honestly and quickly when confronted
>>>> about
>>>> the
>>>> > Marco C. "Commuter" ad.
>>>> >
>>>> > Several photographers and people with a firmer grasp on law have
>>>> said
>>>> > sale
>>>> > and usage of the picture of Marco on his bike were legal because all
>>>> > logos
>>>> > and his face were edited by Photoshop. Legally, that is true. But
>>>> during
>>>> > the
>>>> > back and forth of several agitated emails, I discovered that the
>>>> > photographer took random photographs of individuals, selling their
>>>> image
>>>> > without their knowledge or signature on a release form. While
>>>> technically
>>>> > what they did was in a legal gray area of acceptability, ethically
>>>> they
>>>> > have
>>>> > no solid ground on which to stand. But, I ask: if the face was
>>>> blurred,
>>>> > how
>>>> > was I and several others able to immediately able to recognize our
>>>> friend
>>>> > Marco? Peer recognition. And being a cyclist who rides for money,
>>>> use of
>>>> > his
>>>> > photo while he works is equivalent to theft.
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes, I have been boastful, extravagant and silly to the point of
>>>> > embarrassment in the past, but the potential for my friend to be
>>>> > exploited
>>>> > monetarily was too much for me to idly watch and tolerate. I
>>>> initially
>>>> > became agitated when I saw an ad in a US magazine. After I sent
>>>> emails
>>>> > asking for opinions on the matter (I know that I am not always
>>>> right), I
>>>> > was
>>>> > forwarded another ad from someone outside of the US with the same
>>>> photo
>>>> > of
>>>> > Marco but digitally manipulated so that he faced the opposite
>>>> direction.
>>>> > It
>>>> > was then I felt stronger the need to stop the ad campaign.
>>>> >
>>>> > Many of the riders in the USA ride in terrible conditions with low
>>>> pay,
>>>> > no
>>>> > vacation, no real health benefits, no retirement plans, no college
>>>> > reimbursementt and must pay for bicycle expenses out of pocket with
>>>> the
>>>> > threat of death from every passing car, cab, truck and bus. It is a
>>>> shit
>>>> > situation, but one in which the rider is aware of the pros and cons.
>>>> > Someone
>>>> > attempting to make money off of messengers while riding in the rain
>>>> made
>>>> > my
>>>> > blood boil. (I thought about this while riding in monsoon-like
>>>> conditions
>>>> > yesterday) After much investigations, I was right in being angry.
>>>> The
>>>> > anger
>>>> > should have been directed toward the photography company that sold
>>>> the
>>>> > photo
>>>> > and the photographer that tried to exploit people on the street and
>>>> > digitally manipulating their image.
>>>> >
>>>> > When I see Kenda Tire ads in the coming months with a clear photos
>>>> of
>>>> > Marco
>>>> > Creacy, I will feel vindicated. When you see those ads you should
>>>> buy
>>>> > their
>>>> > stuff
>>>> >
>>>> > Corey the Courier
>>>> > "There is something wrong in a government where they who do the most
>>>> have
>>>> > the least. There is something wrong when honesty wears a rag, and
>>>> > rascality
>>>> > a robe; when the loving, the tender, eat a crust, while the infamous
>>>> sit
>>>> > at
>>>> > the banquets" -Robert G. Ingersoll.
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Messengers mailing list
>>>> > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>>>> >
>>>> _________________________
>>>> .  Roy Wilkie
>>>> :  Deft Courier
>>>> :. http://deftcourier.com
>>>> :: (206) 245-8843
>>>>
>>>> DC 112*144616*5
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Messengers mailing list
>>>> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Julio Saravia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Julio Saravia
>> _______________________________________________
>> Messengers mailing list
>> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
>> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Messengers mailing list
> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>


-- 
joel metz : magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx : http://www.blackbirdsf.org/
magpie messenger collective   :    http://magpiemessenger.com/
==
          i know what innocence looks like - and it wasn't there,
                                after she got that bicycle...