Re: [messengers] Use of likeness without permission (epilogue)

Date: 2 Dec 2010 20:38:28 +0100
From: Julio Saravia <saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>


nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!  joel...you lost me at "typical messenger
'i deserve free/cheap parts from the industry cause im a messenger'
attitude".  thank God you brought it back with "angles".  it definitely is
all about angles.  no matter which way you work them there will be people
that are for and against you.  in this industry...you get yours and worry
about the rest later...ha?



On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Joel Metz <magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> oh, yes, absolutely. i will not, under any circumstances, contradict you
> when you say that "just because something is legal doesnt make it right".
>
> but also i will add that just because you CAN work the system to get
> something you want doesnt mean youre entitled to it. frankly, i see this
> whole thing as an extension of the typical messenger "i deserve free/cheap
> parts from the industry cause im a messenger" attitude. ill wholeheartedly
> congratulate those who manage to work that angle, but never for a moment
> will i agree that it was owed to them.
>
> kenda was "working an angle to make a buck" off what they reasonably
> thought was legitimately fair use unidentifiable photo of a man on the
> street (and it remains so) - corey was working an angle similarly on
> behalf of marco. nothing implicitly wrong with working an angle - were all
> doing it. i will continue to get a chuckle at the seemingly off-held
> notion that its bad form for a corporation to make a buck off you, but
> totally ok if they throw you a shiny bauble in return.
>
> nice demo of godwin's law, by the way. :)
>
> -joel
>
>
> > I applaud you Corey, good lookin out for a fellow courier.
> >
> > While I fully understand everybody's "legality" stance, I still hold
> > on to the ideal that just because something is "legal" does not make
> > it "right"
> >
> > I think we should thank people like Corey who have the stones to stand
> > up and make some noise when they see a CORPORATION, or ARTIST taking
> > every advantage possible to make a buck. Let them know, or who knows
> > where they'll stop.
> >
> > my 2 pennies.
> >
> > -Stewy
> >
> > "Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal."
> > --Martin Luther King
> >
> > (I'm making no attempt at comparing the Holocaust with Marco's dorky
> > picture... I'm sure somebody would have commented to such... I'm just
> > saying. Marco, really, orange and blue and red and sooo many colors in
> > that Pic... I'm actually surprised a company would use that.)
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Julio Saravia <saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> >> not too long ago a florida man got about 3 mil from mcdonalds or some
> >> fast
> >> food joint because when he bit into the burger it squirted hot greese on
> >> him
> >> and he suffered burns.  im not saying...im just saying...peace.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Julio Saravia
> >> <saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> >>
> >>> "golf clap"...yay!  while i applaud corey for his contined efforts to
> >>> destroy "da man" and thank him for a lot of entertainment while at work
> >>> i
> >>> anxiously await an answer to a good question by roy.  please wait to
> >>> reply
> >>> until after my popcorn is done...thanks.
> >>>
> >>> el dispatcher,
> >>> ~j.dot
> >>>
> >>>   On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:20 AM, Roy Wilkie <roy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> If you take a look through stock photo collections you'll find plenty
> >>>> of
> >>>> real life photos taken of construction workers, police, airlines ramp
> >>>> agents, etc. I'm sure they were never compensated for.  What's the
> >>>> difference between you and them?  If they blurred his face it was out
> >>>> of
> >>>> consideration the privacy of this anonymous working man on a public
> >>>> street
> >>>> and it would make more sense to be grateful than indignant.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 08:19 -0500, "Corey Hilliard" <
> >>>> coreythecourier@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>> > I thank those of you that responded for your letters to Kenda and
> >>>> emails
> >>>> > to
> >>>> > me about your opinions in addressing this matter.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Viewpoints fell into a few categories on the Marco versus
> >>>> > KendaTires/Shutterstock.com/"S.V. Luma" affair:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Kenda tires, a big corporation, is exploiting the little guy. Let's
> >>>> > boycott
> >>>> > their product, hitting them in the pocket.
> >>>> > The face in the photo was blurred and unrecognizable.
> >>>> Shutterstock.com
> >>>> > and
> >>>> > the photographer had every legal right to sell the photo, Kenda
> >>>> Tires
> >>>> the
> >>>> > right to use it for advertising.
> >>>> > Corey, you have a big mouth and may have smeared the reputation of
> >>>> the
> >>>> > wrong
> >>>> > person by crying wolf.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Now that Kenda has agreed to take care of Marco when he contacts
> >>>> them, I
> >>>> > feel justified for making lots of noise. I am not excited about
> >>>> being
> >>>> > responsible for temporarily tarnishing the image of Kenda Tires. On
> >>>> > reflection, they responded honestly and quickly when confronted
> >>>> about
> >>>> the
> >>>> > Marco C. "Commuter" ad.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Several photographers and people with a firmer grasp on law have
> >>>> said
> >>>> > sale
> >>>> > and usage of the picture of Marco on his bike were legal because all
> >>>> > logos
> >>>> > and his face were edited by Photoshop. Legally, that is true. But
> >>>> during
> >>>> > the
> >>>> > back and forth of several agitated emails, I discovered that the
> >>>> > photographer took random photographs of individuals, selling their
> >>>> image
> >>>> > without their knowledge or signature on a release form. While
> >>>> technically
> >>>> > what they did was in a legal gray area of acceptability, ethically
> >>>> they
> >>>> > have
> >>>> > no solid ground on which to stand. But, I ask: if the face was
> >>>> blurred,
> >>>> > how
> >>>> > was I and several others able to immediately able to recognize our
> >>>> friend
> >>>> > Marco? Peer recognition. And being a cyclist who rides for money,
> >>>> use of
> >>>> > his
> >>>> > photo while he works is equivalent to theft.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Yes, I have been boastful, extravagant and silly to the point of
> >>>> > embarrassment in the past, but the potential for my friend to be
> >>>> > exploited
> >>>> > monetarily was too much for me to idly watch and tolerate. I
> >>>> initially
> >>>> > became agitated when I saw an ad in a US magazine. After I sent
> >>>> emails
> >>>> > asking for opinions on the matter (I know that I am not always
> >>>> right), I
> >>>> > was
> >>>> > forwarded another ad from someone outside of the US with the same
> >>>> photo
> >>>> > of
> >>>> > Marco but digitally manipulated so that he faced the opposite
> >>>> direction.
> >>>> > It
> >>>> > was then I felt stronger the need to stop the ad campaign.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Many of the riders in the USA ride in terrible conditions with low
> >>>> pay,
> >>>> > no
> >>>> > vacation, no real health benefits, no retirement plans, no college
> >>>> > reimbursementt and must pay for bicycle expenses out of pocket with
> >>>> the
> >>>> > threat of death from every passing car, cab, truck and bus. It is a
> >>>> shit
> >>>> > situation, but one in which the rider is aware of the pros and cons.
> >>>> > Someone
> >>>> > attempting to make money off of messengers while riding in the rain
> >>>> made
> >>>> > my
> >>>> > blood boil. (I thought about this while riding in monsoon-like
> >>>> conditions
> >>>> > yesterday) After much investigations, I was right in being angry.
> >>>> The
> >>>> > anger
> >>>> > should have been directed toward the photography company that sold
> >>>> the
> >>>> > photo
> >>>> > and the photographer that tried to exploit people on the street and
> >>>> > digitally manipulating their image.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > When I see Kenda Tire ads in the coming months with a clear photos
> >>>> of
> >>>> > Marco
> >>>> > Creacy, I will feel vindicated. When you see those ads you should
> >>>> buy
> >>>> > their
> >>>> > stuff
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Corey the Courier
> >>>> > "There is something wrong in a government where they who do the most
> >>>> have
> >>>> > the least. There is something wrong when honesty wears a rag, and
> >>>> > rascality
> >>>> > a robe; when the loving, the tender, eat a crust, while the infamous
> >>>> sit
> >>>> > at
> >>>> > the banquets" -Robert G. Ingersoll.
> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > Messengers mailing list
> >>>> > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> >>>> > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> >>>> >
> >>>> _________________________
> >>>> .  Roy Wilkie
> >>>> :  Deft Courier
> >>>> :. http://deftcourier.com
> >>>> :: (206) 245-8843
> >>>>
> >>>> DC 112*144616*5
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Messengers mailing list
> >>>> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> >>>> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Julio Saravia
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Julio Saravia
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Messengers mailing list
> >> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> >> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Messengers mailing list
> > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> >
>
>
> --
> joel metz : magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx : http://www.blackbirdsf.org/
> magpie messenger collective   :    http://magpiemessenger.com/
> ==
>          i know what innocence looks like - and it wasn't there,
>                                after she got that bicycle...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  Messengers mailing list
> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>



-- 
Julio Saravia