Re: [messengers] Use of likeness without permission (epilogue)

Date: 3 Dec 2010 01:30:46 +0100
From: Corey Hilliard <coreythecourier@xxxxxxxxx>


Where is messengerilla when you need him? If "the man" is going to make
money off of my friend, they should give him a gewgaw.

The difference between a messenger and all those other professions Roy
listed is that most US messengers are underpaid and overworked without
health/education/retirement benefits, holidays, sick days, vacations.
Despite the hazardous-duty occupation, the pay is shit. I am not complaining
about the job. It's just that those non-messenger people have it easy and
don't need the extra loot/schwag as much as we do.

I am not getting a thing out of this. I just don't have a thing to do since
I stopped patching tubulars...

Corey the Courier
Fuck, I'm tired. How many did YOU do today?

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Julio Saravia <saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!  joel...you lost me at "typical messenger
> 'i deserve free/cheap parts from the industry cause im a messenger'
> attitude".  thank God you brought it back with "angles".  it definitely is
> all about angles.  no matter which way you work them there will be people
> that are for and against you.  in this industry...you get yours and worry
> about the rest later...ha?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Joel Metz <magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > oh, yes, absolutely. i will not, under any circumstances, contradict you
> > when you say that "just because something is legal doesnt make it right".
> >
> > but also i will add that just because you CAN work the system to get
> > something you want doesnt mean youre entitled to it. frankly, i see this
> > whole thing as an extension of the typical messenger "i deserve
> free/cheap
> > parts from the industry cause im a messenger" attitude. ill
> wholeheartedly
> > congratulate those who manage to work that angle, but never for a moment
> > will i agree that it was owed to them.
> >
> > kenda was "working an angle to make a buck" off what they reasonably
> > thought was legitimately fair use unidentifiable photo of a man on the
> > street (and it remains so) - corey was working an angle similarly on
> > behalf of marco. nothing implicitly wrong with working an angle - were
> all
> > doing it. i will continue to get a chuckle at the seemingly off-held
> > notion that its bad form for a corporation to make a buck off you, but
> > totally ok if they throw you a shiny bauble in return.
> >
> > nice demo of godwin's law, by the way. :)
> >
> > -joel
> >
> >
> > > I applaud you Corey, good lookin out for a fellow courier.
> > >
> > > While I fully understand everybody's "legality" stance, I still hold
> > > on to the ideal that just because something is "legal" does not make
> > > it "right"
> > >
> > > I think we should thank people like Corey who have the stones to stand
> > > up and make some noise when they see a CORPORATION, or ARTIST taking
> > > every advantage possible to make a buck. Let them know, or who knows
> > > where they'll stop.
> > >
> > > my 2 pennies.
> > >
> > > -Stewy
> > >
> > > "Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal."
> > > --Martin Luther King
> > >
> > > (I'm making no attempt at comparing the Holocaust with Marco's dorky
> > > picture... I'm sure somebody would have commented to such... I'm just
> > > saying. Marco, really, orange and blue and red and sooo many colors in
> > > that Pic... I'm actually surprised a company would use that.)
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Julio Saravia <
> saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > wrote:
> > >> not too long ago a florida man got about 3 mil from mcdonalds or some
> > >> fast
> > >> food joint because when he bit into the burger it squirted hot greese
> on
> > >> him
> > >> and he suffered burns.  im not saying...im just saying...peace.
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Julio Saravia
> > >> <saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> "golf clap"...yay!  while i applaud corey for his contined efforts to
> > >>> destroy "da man" and thank him for a lot of entertainment while at
> work
> > >>> i
> > >>> anxiously await an answer to a good question by roy.  please wait to
> > >>> reply
> > >>> until after my popcorn is done...thanks.
> > >>>
> > >>> el dispatcher,
> > >>> ~j.dot
> > >>>
> > >>>   On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:20 AM, Roy Wilkie <roy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> If you take a look through stock photo collections you'll find
> plenty
> > >>>> of
> > >>>> real life photos taken of construction workers, police, airlines
> ramp
> > >>>> agents, etc. I'm sure they were never compensated for.  What's the
> > >>>> difference between you and them?  If they blurred his face it was
> out
> > >>>> of
> > >>>> consideration the privacy of this anonymous working man on a public
> > >>>> street
> > >>>> and it would make more sense to be grateful than indignant.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 08:19 -0500, "Corey Hilliard" <
> > >>>> coreythecourier@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>>> > I thank those of you that responded for your letters to Kenda and
> > >>>> emails
> > >>>> > to
> > >>>> > me about your opinions in addressing this matter.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Viewpoints fell into a few categories on the Marco versus
> > >>>> > KendaTires/Shutterstock.com/"S.V. Luma" affair:
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Kenda tires, a big corporation, is exploiting the little guy.
> Let's
> > >>>> > boycott
> > >>>> > their product, hitting them in the pocket.
> > >>>> > The face in the photo was blurred and unrecognizable.
> > >>>> Shutterstock.com
> > >>>> > and
> > >>>> > the photographer had every legal right to sell the photo, Kenda
> > >>>> Tires
> > >>>> the
> > >>>> > right to use it for advertising.
> > >>>> > Corey, you have a big mouth and may have smeared the reputation of
> > >>>> the
> > >>>> > wrong
> > >>>> > person by crying wolf.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Now that Kenda has agreed to take care of Marco when he contacts
> > >>>> them, I
> > >>>> > feel justified for making lots of noise. I am not excited about
> > >>>> being
> > >>>> > responsible for temporarily tarnishing the image of Kenda Tires.
> On
> > >>>> > reflection, they responded honestly and quickly when confronted
> > >>>> about
> > >>>> the
> > >>>> > Marco C. "Commuter" ad.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Several photographers and people with a firmer grasp on law have
> > >>>> said
> > >>>> > sale
> > >>>> > and usage of the picture of Marco on his bike were legal because
> all
> > >>>> > logos
> > >>>> > and his face were edited by Photoshop. Legally, that is true. But
> > >>>> during
> > >>>> > the
> > >>>> > back and forth of several agitated emails, I discovered that the
> > >>>> > photographer took random photographs of individuals, selling their
> > >>>> image
> > >>>> > without their knowledge or signature on a release form. While
> > >>>> technically
> > >>>> > what they did was in a legal gray area of acceptability, ethically
> > >>>> they
> > >>>> > have
> > >>>> > no solid ground on which to stand. But, I ask: if the face was
> > >>>> blurred,
> > >>>> > how
> > >>>> > was I and several others able to immediately able to recognize our
> > >>>> friend
> > >>>> > Marco? Peer recognition. And being a cyclist who rides for money,
> > >>>> use of
> > >>>> > his
> > >>>> > photo while he works is equivalent to theft.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Yes, I have been boastful, extravagant and silly to the point of
> > >>>> > embarrassment in the past, but the potential for my friend to be
> > >>>> > exploited
> > >>>> > monetarily was too much for me to idly watch and tolerate. I
> > >>>> initially
> > >>>> > became agitated when I saw an ad in a US magazine. After I sent
> > >>>> emails
> > >>>> > asking for opinions on the matter (I know that I am not always
> > >>>> right), I
> > >>>> > was
> > >>>> > forwarded another ad from someone outside of the US with the same
> > >>>> photo
> > >>>> > of
> > >>>> > Marco but digitally manipulated so that he faced the opposite
> > >>>> direction.
> > >>>> > It
> > >>>> > was then I felt stronger the need to stop the ad campaign.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Many of the riders in the USA ride in terrible conditions with low
> > >>>> pay,
> > >>>> > no
> > >>>> > vacation, no real health benefits, no retirement plans, no college
> > >>>> > reimbursementt and must pay for bicycle expenses out of pocket
> with
> > >>>> the
> > >>>> > threat of death from every passing car, cab, truck and bus. It is
> a
> > >>>> shit
> > >>>> > situation, but one in which the rider is aware of the pros and
> cons.
> > >>>> > Someone
> > >>>> > attempting to make money off of messengers while riding in the
> rain
> > >>>> made
> > >>>> > my
> > >>>> > blood boil. (I thought about this while riding in monsoon-like
> > >>>> conditions
> > >>>> > yesterday) After much investigations, I was right in being angry.
> > >>>> The
> > >>>> > anger
> > >>>> > should have been directed toward the photography company that sold
> > >>>> the
> > >>>> > photo
> > >>>> > and the photographer that tried to exploit people on the street
> and
> > >>>> > digitally manipulating their image.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > When I see Kenda Tire ads in the coming months with a clear photos
> > >>>> of
> > >>>> > Marco
> > >>>> > Creacy, I will feel vindicated. When you see those ads you should
> > >>>> buy
> > >>>> > their
> > >>>> > stuff
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Corey the Courier
> > >>>> > "There is something wrong in a government where they who do the
> most
> > >>>> have
> > >>>> > the least. There is something wrong when honesty wears a rag, and
> > >>>> > rascality
> > >>>> > a robe; when the loving, the tender, eat a crust, while the
> infamous
> > >>>> sit
> > >>>> > at
> > >>>> > the banquets" -Robert G. Ingersoll.
> > >>>> > _______________________________________________
> > >>>> > Messengers mailing list
> > >>>> > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> _________________________
> > >>>> .  Roy Wilkie
> > >>>> :  Deft Courier
> > >>>> :. http://deftcourier.com
> > >>>> :: (206) 245-8843
> > >>>>
> > >>>> DC 112*144616*5
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> Messengers mailing list
> > >>>> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Julio Saravia
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Julio Saravia
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Messengers mailing list
> > >> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > >> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Messengers mailing list
> > > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > joel metz : magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx : http://www.blackbirdsf.org/
> > magpie messenger collective   :    http://magpiemessenger.com/
> > ==
> >          i know what innocence looks like - and it wasn't there,
> >                                after she got that bicycle...
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >  Messengers mailing list
> > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Julio Saravia
> _______________________________________________
> Messengers mailing list
> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>