Re: [messengers] Use of likeness without permission (epilogue)

Date: 3 Dec 2010 02:51:41 +0100
From: Demon Cats <thedemoncats@xxxxxxxxxxx>


I guess that means that Kenda will never sponsor an alleycat. :(

Racing for Victory and free beer!!!


John


LesDemonCats.blogspot.com


www.demoncats.com





> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 19:30:44 -0500
> From: coreythecourier@xxxxxxxxx
> To: messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [messengers] Use of likeness without permission (epilogue)
> 
> Where is messengerilla when you need him? If "the man" is going to make
> money off of my friend, they should give him a gewgaw.
> 
> The difference between a messenger and all those other professions Roy
> listed is that most US messengers are underpaid and overworked without
> health/education/retirement benefits, holidays, sick days, vacations.
> Despite the hazardous-duty occupation, the pay is shit. I am not complaining
> about the job. It's just that those non-messenger people have it easy and
> don't need the extra loot/schwag as much as we do.
> 
> I am not getting a thing out of this. I just don't have a thing to do since
> I stopped patching tubulars...
> 
> Corey the Courier
> Fuck, I'm tired. How many did YOU do today?
> 
> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Julio Saravia <saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> 
> > nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!  joel...you lost me at "typical messenger
> > 'i deserve free/cheap parts from the industry cause im a messenger'
> > attitude".  thank God you brought it back with "angles".  it definitely is
> > all about angles.  no matter which way you work them there will be people
> > that are for and against you.  in this industry...you get yours and worry
> > about the rest later...ha?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Joel Metz <magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > oh, yes, absolutely. i will not, under any circumstances, contradict you
> > > when you say that "just because something is legal doesnt make it right".
> > >
> > > but also i will add that just because you CAN work the system to get
> > > something you want doesnt mean youre entitled to it. frankly, i see this
> > > whole thing as an extension of the typical messenger "i deserve
> > free/cheap
> > > parts from the industry cause im a messenger" attitude. ill
> > wholeheartedly
> > > congratulate those who manage to work that angle, but never for a moment
> > > will i agree that it was owed to them.
> > >
> > > kenda was "working an angle to make a buck" off what they reasonably
> > > thought was legitimately fair use unidentifiable photo of a man on the
> > > street (and it remains so) - corey was working an angle similarly on
> > > behalf of marco. nothing implicitly wrong with working an angle - were
> > all
> > > doing it. i will continue to get a chuckle at the seemingly off-held
> > > notion that its bad form for a corporation to make a buck off you, but
> > > totally ok if they throw you a shiny bauble in return.
> > >
> > > nice demo of godwin's law, by the way. :)
> > >
> > > -joel
> > >
> > >
> > > > I applaud you Corey, good lookin out for a fellow courier.
> > > >
> > > > While I fully understand everybody's "legality" stance, I still hold
> > > > on to the ideal that just because something is "legal" does not make
> > > > it "right"
> > > >
> > > > I think we should thank people like Corey who have the stones to stand
> > > > up and make some noise when they see a CORPORATION, or ARTIST taking
> > > > every advantage possible to make a buck. Let them know, or who knows
> > > > where they'll stop.
> > > >
> > > > my 2 pennies.
> > > >
> > > > -Stewy
> > > >
> > > > "Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal."
> > > > --Martin Luther King
> > > >
> > > > (I'm making no attempt at comparing the Holocaust with Marco's dorky
> > > > picture... I'm sure somebody would have commented to such... I'm just
> > > > saying. Marco, really, orange and blue and red and sooo many colors in
> > > > that Pic... I'm actually surprised a company would use that.)
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Julio Saravia <
> > saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >> not too long ago a florida man got about 3 mil from mcdonalds or some
> > > >> fast
> > > >> food joint because when he bit into the burger it squirted hot greese
> > on
> > > >> him
> > > >> and he suffered burns.  im not saying...im just saying...peace.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Julio Saravia
> > > >> <saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> "golf clap"...yay!  while i applaud corey for his contined efforts to
> > > >>> destroy "da man" and thank him for a lot of entertainment while at
> > work
> > > >>> i
> > > >>> anxiously await an answer to a good question by roy.  please wait to
> > > >>> reply
> > > >>> until after my popcorn is done...thanks.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> el dispatcher,
> > > >>> ~j.dot
> > > >>>
> > > >>>   On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:20 AM, Roy Wilkie <roy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> If you take a look through stock photo collections you'll find
> > plenty
> > > >>>> of
> > > >>>> real life photos taken of construction workers, police, airlines
> > ramp
> > > >>>> agents, etc. I'm sure they were never compensated for.  What's the
> > > >>>> difference between you and them?  If they blurred his face it was
> > out
> > > >>>> of
> > > >>>> consideration the privacy of this anonymous working man on a public
> > > >>>> street
> > > >>>> and it would make more sense to be grateful than indignant.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 08:19 -0500, "Corey Hilliard" <
> > > >>>> coreythecourier@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >>>> > I thank those of you that responded for your letters to Kenda and
> > > >>>> emails
> > > >>>> > to
> > > >>>> > me about your opinions in addressing this matter.
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > Viewpoints fell into a few categories on the Marco versus
> > > >>>> > KendaTires/Shutterstock.com/"S.V. Luma" affair:
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > Kenda tires, a big corporation, is exploiting the little guy.
> > Let's
> > > >>>> > boycott
> > > >>>> > their product, hitting them in the pocket.
> > > >>>> > The face in the photo was blurred and unrecognizable.
> > > >>>> Shutterstock.com
> > > >>>> > and
> > > >>>> > the photographer had every legal right to sell the photo, Kenda
> > > >>>> Tires
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>> > right to use it for advertising.
> > > >>>> > Corey, you have a big mouth and may have smeared the reputation of
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>> > wrong
> > > >>>> > person by crying wolf.
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > Now that Kenda has agreed to take care of Marco when he contacts
> > > >>>> them, I
> > > >>>> > feel justified for making lots of noise. I am not excited about
> > > >>>> being
> > > >>>> > responsible for temporarily tarnishing the image of Kenda Tires.
> > On
> > > >>>> > reflection, they responded honestly and quickly when confronted
> > > >>>> about
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>> > Marco C. "Commuter" ad.
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > Several photographers and people with a firmer grasp on law have
> > > >>>> said
> > > >>>> > sale
> > > >>>> > and usage of the picture of Marco on his bike were legal because
> > all
> > > >>>> > logos
> > > >>>> > and his face were edited by Photoshop. Legally, that is true. But
> > > >>>> during
> > > >>>> > the
> > > >>>> > back and forth of several agitated emails, I discovered that the
> > > >>>> > photographer took random photographs of individuals, selling their
> > > >>>> image
> > > >>>> > without their knowledge or signature on a release form. While
> > > >>>> technically
> > > >>>> > what they did was in a legal gray area of acceptability, ethically
> > > >>>> they
> > > >>>> > have
> > > >>>> > no solid ground on which to stand. But, I ask: if the face was
> > > >>>> blurred,
> > > >>>> > how
> > > >>>> > was I and several others able to immediately able to recognize our
> > > >>>> friend
> > > >>>> > Marco? Peer recognition. And being a cyclist who rides for money,
> > > >>>> use of
> > > >>>> > his
> > > >>>> > photo while he works is equivalent to theft.
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > Yes, I have been boastful, extravagant and silly to the point of
> > > >>>> > embarrassment in the past, but the potential for my friend to be
> > > >>>> > exploited
> > > >>>> > monetarily was too much for me to idly watch and tolerate. I
> > > >>>> initially
> > > >>>> > became agitated when I saw an ad in a US magazine. After I sent
> > > >>>> emails
> > > >>>> > asking for opinions on the matter (I know that I am not always
> > > >>>> right), I
> > > >>>> > was
> > > >>>> > forwarded another ad from someone outside of the US with the same
> > > >>>> photo
> > > >>>> > of
> > > >>>> > Marco but digitally manipulated so that he faced the opposite
> > > >>>> direction.
> > > >>>> > It
> > > >>>> > was then I felt stronger the need to stop the ad campaign.
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > Many of the riders in the USA ride in terrible conditions with low
> > > >>>> pay,
> > > >>>> > no
> > > >>>> > vacation, no real health benefits, no retirement plans, no college
> > > >>>> > reimbursementt and must pay for bicycle expenses out of pocket
> > with
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>> > threat of death from every passing car, cab, truck and bus. It is
> > a
> > > >>>> shit
> > > >>>> > situation, but one in which the rider is aware of the pros and
> > cons.
> > > >>>> > Someone
> > > >>>> > attempting to make money off of messengers while riding in the
> > rain
> > > >>>> made
> > > >>>> > my
> > > >>>> > blood boil. (I thought about this while riding in monsoon-like
> > > >>>> conditions
> > > >>>> > yesterday) After much investigations, I was right in being angry.
> > > >>>> The
> > > >>>> > anger
> > > >>>> > should have been directed toward the photography company that sold
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>> > photo
> > > >>>> > and the photographer that tried to exploit people on the street
> > and
> > > >>>> > digitally manipulating their image.
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > When I see Kenda Tire ads in the coming months with a clear photos
> > > >>>> of
> > > >>>> > Marco
> > > >>>> > Creacy, I will feel vindicated. When you see those ads you should
> > > >>>> buy
> > > >>>> > their
> > > >>>> > stuff
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > Corey the Courier
> > > >>>> > "There is something wrong in a government where they who do the
> > most
> > > >>>> have
> > > >>>> > the least. There is something wrong when honesty wears a rag, and
> > > >>>> > rascality
> > > >>>> > a robe; when the loving, the tender, eat a crust, while the
> > infamous
> > > >>>> sit
> > > >>>> > at
> > > >>>> > the banquets" -Robert G. Ingersoll.
> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________
> > > >>>> > Messengers mailing list
> > > >>>> > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > > >>>> > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> _________________________
> > > >>>> .  Roy Wilkie
> > > >>>> :  Deft Courier
> > > >>>> :. http://deftcourier.com
> > > >>>> :: (206) 245-8843
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> DC 112*144616*5
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>>> Messengers mailing list
> > > >>>> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > > >>>> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> Julio Saravia
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Julio Saravia
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Messengers mailing list
> > > >> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > > >> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > > >>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Messengers mailing list
> > > > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > joel metz : magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx : http://www.blackbirdsf.org/
> > > magpie messenger collective   :    http://magpiemessenger.com/
> > > ==
> > >          i know what innocence looks like - and it wasn't there,
> > >                                after she got that bicycle...
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >  Messengers mailing list
> > > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Julio Saravia
> > _______________________________________________
> > Messengers mailing list
> > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Messengers mailing list
> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers