Re: [messengers] Use of likeness without permission (epilogue)

Date: 3 Dec 2010 12:57:49 +0100
From: Julio Saravia <saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>


yeah...get yours if you can.  the only thing is that as a community we were
all ready to boycott kenda.  why?  because they bought a picture from
another company...shutterstock...who bought it from a photographer.
shouldn't you have gone after the photographer?  or maybe even
shutterstock?  i know, i know...shutterstock was contacted but its kenda
stepping up and the company that was being threatened with possible
boycott.  did you tell shutterstock you were going to boycott them?  haha!
it's not kendas fault they were sold something that was "ethically" wrong.
it's super awesome of them to come through the way they say they will.  they
are not legally or ETHICALLY tied to this whole mess.  that being
said...does this mean that as a community we do out best to support kenda?
that we go out of our way to make sure we buy kenda tires?  it would be the
"ethically" right thing to do...right?

j.dot
*no longer a courier cause i like to have enough energy to catch episodes of
fringe...peace.*

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 7:51 PM, Demon Cats <thedemoncats@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
> I guess that means that Kenda will never sponsor an alleycat. :(
>
> Racing for Victory and free beer!!!
>
>
> John
>
>
> LesDemonCats.blogspot.com
>
>
> www.demoncats.com
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 19:30:44 -0500
> > From: coreythecourier@xxxxxxxxx
> > To: messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [messengers] Use of likeness without permission (epilogue)
> >
> > Where is messengerilla when you need him? If "the man" is going to make
> > money off of my friend, they should give him a gewgaw.
> >
> > The difference between a messenger and all those other professions Roy
> > listed is that most US messengers are underpaid and overworked without
> > health/education/retirement benefits, holidays, sick days, vacations.
> > Despite the hazardous-duty occupation, the pay is shit. I am not
> complaining
> > about the job. It's just that those non-messenger people have it easy and
> > don't need the extra loot/schwag as much as we do.
> >
> > I am not getting a thing out of this. I just don't have a thing to do
> since
> > I stopped patching tubulars...
> >
> > Corey the Courier
> > Fuck, I'm tired. How many did YOU do today?
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Julio Saravia <saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx
> >wrote:
> >
> > > nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!  joel...you lost me at "typical
> messenger
> > > 'i deserve free/cheap parts from the industry cause im a messenger'
> > > attitude".  thank God you brought it back with "angles".  it definitely
> is
> > > all about angles.  no matter which way you work them there will be
> people
> > > that are for and against you.  in this industry...you get yours and
> worry
> > > about the rest later...ha?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Joel Metz <magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > oh, yes, absolutely. i will not, under any circumstances, contradict
> you
> > > > when you say that "just because something is legal doesnt make it
> right".
> > > >
> > > > but also i will add that just because you CAN work the system to get
> > > > something you want doesnt mean youre entitled to it. frankly, i see
> this
> > > > whole thing as an extension of the typical messenger "i deserve
> > > free/cheap
> > > > parts from the industry cause im a messenger" attitude. ill
> > > wholeheartedly
> > > > congratulate those who manage to work that angle, but never for a
> moment
> > > > will i agree that it was owed to them.
> > > >
> > > > kenda was "working an angle to make a buck" off what they reasonably
> > > > thought was legitimately fair use unidentifiable photo of a man on
> the
> > > > street (and it remains so) - corey was working an angle similarly on
> > > > behalf of marco. nothing implicitly wrong with working an angle -
> were
> > > all
> > > > doing it. i will continue to get a chuckle at the seemingly off-held
> > > > notion that its bad form for a corporation to make a buck off you,
> but
> > > > totally ok if they throw you a shiny bauble in return.
> > > >
> > > > nice demo of godwin's law, by the way. :)
> > > >
> > > > -joel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I applaud you Corey, good lookin out for a fellow courier.
> > > > >
> > > > > While I fully understand everybody's "legality" stance, I still
> hold
> > > > > on to the ideal that just because something is "legal" does not
> make
> > > > > it "right"
> > > > >
> > > > > I think we should thank people like Corey who have the stones to
> stand
> > > > > up and make some noise when they see a CORPORATION, or ARTIST
> taking
> > > > > every advantage possible to make a buck. Let them know, or who
> knows
> > > > > where they'll stop.
> > > > >
> > > > > my 2 pennies.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Stewy
> > > > >
> > > > > "Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal."
> > > > > --Martin Luther King
> > > > >
> > > > > (I'm making no attempt at comparing the Holocaust with Marco's
> dorky
> > > > > picture... I'm sure somebody would have commented to such... I'm
> just
> > > > > saying. Marco, really, orange and blue and red and sooo many colors
> in
> > > > > that Pic... I'm actually surprised a company would use that.)
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Julio Saravia <
> > > saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> not too long ago a florida man got about 3 mil from mcdonalds or
> some
> > > > >> fast
> > > > >> food joint because when he bit into the burger it squirted hot
> greese
> > > on
> > > > >> him
> > > > >> and he suffered burns.  im not saying...im just saying...peace.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Julio Saravia
> > > > >> <saravia.julio@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> "golf clap"...yay!  while i applaud corey for his contined
> efforts to
> > > > >>> destroy "da man" and thank him for a lot of entertainment while
> at
> > > work
> > > > >>> i
> > > > >>> anxiously await an answer to a good question by roy.  please wait
> to
> > > > >>> reply
> > > > >>> until after my popcorn is done...thanks.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> el dispatcher,
> > > > >>> ~j.dot
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>   On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:20 AM, Roy Wilkie <
> roy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> If you take a look through stock photo collections you'll find
> > > plenty
> > > > >>>> of
> > > > >>>> real life photos taken of construction workers, police, airlines
> > > ramp
> > > > >>>> agents, etc. I'm sure they were never compensated for.  What's
> the
> > > > >>>> difference between you and them?  If they blurred his face it
> was
> > > out
> > > > >>>> of
> > > > >>>> consideration the privacy of this anonymous working man on a
> public
> > > > >>>> street
> > > > >>>> and it would make more sense to be grateful than indignant.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 08:19 -0500, "Corey Hilliard" <
> > > > >>>> coreythecourier@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > >>>> > I thank those of you that responded for your letters to Kenda
> and
> > > > >>>> emails
> > > > >>>> > to
> > > > >>>> > me about your opinions in addressing this matter.
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> > Viewpoints fell into a few categories on the Marco versus
> > > > >>>> > KendaTires/Shutterstock.com/"S.V. Luma" affair:
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> > Kenda tires, a big corporation, is exploiting the little guy.
> > > Let's
> > > > >>>> > boycott
> > > > >>>> > their product, hitting them in the pocket.
> > > > >>>> > The face in the photo was blurred and unrecognizable.
> > > > >>>> Shutterstock.com
> > > > >>>> > and
> > > > >>>> > the photographer had every legal right to sell the photo,
> Kenda
> > > > >>>> Tires
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>> > right to use it for advertising.
> > > > >>>> > Corey, you have a big mouth and may have smeared the
> reputation of
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>> > wrong
> > > > >>>> > person by crying wolf.
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> > Now that Kenda has agreed to take care of Marco when he
> contacts
> > > > >>>> them, I
> > > > >>>> > feel justified for making lots of noise. I am not excited
> about
> > > > >>>> being
> > > > >>>> > responsible for temporarily tarnishing the image of Kenda
> Tires.
> > > On
> > > > >>>> > reflection, they responded honestly and quickly when
> confronted
> > > > >>>> about
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>> > Marco C. "Commuter" ad.
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> > Several photographers and people with a firmer grasp on law
> have
> > > > >>>> said
> > > > >>>> > sale
> > > > >>>> > and usage of the picture of Marco on his bike were legal
> because
> > > all
> > > > >>>> > logos
> > > > >>>> > and his face were edited by Photoshop. Legally, that is true.
> But
> > > > >>>> during
> > > > >>>> > the
> > > > >>>> > back and forth of several agitated emails, I discovered that
> the
> > > > >>>> > photographer took random photographs of individuals, selling
> their
> > > > >>>> image
> > > > >>>> > without their knowledge or signature on a release form. While
> > > > >>>> technically
> > > > >>>> > what they did was in a legal gray area of acceptability,
> ethically
> > > > >>>> they
> > > > >>>> > have
> > > > >>>> > no solid ground on which to stand. But, I ask: if the face was
> > > > >>>> blurred,
> > > > >>>> > how
> > > > >>>> > was I and several others able to immediately able to recognize
> our
> > > > >>>> friend
> > > > >>>> > Marco? Peer recognition. And being a cyclist who rides for
> money,
> > > > >>>> use of
> > > > >>>> > his
> > > > >>>> > photo while he works is equivalent to theft.
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> > Yes, I have been boastful, extravagant and silly to the point
> of
> > > > >>>> > embarrassment in the past, but the potential for my friend to
> be
> > > > >>>> > exploited
> > > > >>>> > monetarily was too much for me to idly watch and tolerate. I
> > > > >>>> initially
> > > > >>>> > became agitated when I saw an ad in a US magazine. After I
> sent
> > > > >>>> emails
> > > > >>>> > asking for opinions on the matter (I know that I am not always
> > > > >>>> right), I
> > > > >>>> > was
> > > > >>>> > forwarded another ad from someone outside of the US with the
> same
> > > > >>>> photo
> > > > >>>> > of
> > > > >>>> > Marco but digitally manipulated so that he faced the opposite
> > > > >>>> direction.
> > > > >>>> > It
> > > > >>>> > was then I felt stronger the need to stop the ad campaign.
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> > Many of the riders in the USA ride in terrible conditions with
> low
> > > > >>>> pay,
> > > > >>>> > no
> > > > >>>> > vacation, no real health benefits, no retirement plans, no
> college
> > > > >>>> > reimbursementt and must pay for bicycle expenses out of pocket
> > > with
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>> > threat of death from every passing car, cab, truck and bus. It
> is
> > > a
> > > > >>>> shit
> > > > >>>> > situation, but one in which the rider is aware of the pros and
> > > cons.
> > > > >>>> > Someone
> > > > >>>> > attempting to make money off of messengers while riding in the
> > > rain
> > > > >>>> made
> > > > >>>> > my
> > > > >>>> > blood boil. (I thought about this while riding in monsoon-like
> > > > >>>> conditions
> > > > >>>> > yesterday) After much investigations, I was right in being
> angry.
> > > > >>>> The
> > > > >>>> > anger
> > > > >>>> > should have been directed toward the photography company that
> sold
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>> > photo
> > > > >>>> > and the photographer that tried to exploit people on the
> street
> > > and
> > > > >>>> > digitally manipulating their image.
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> > When I see Kenda Tire ads in the coming months with a clear
> photos
> > > > >>>> of
> > > > >>>> > Marco
> > > > >>>> > Creacy, I will feel vindicated. When you see those ads you
> should
> > > > >>>> buy
> > > > >>>> > their
> > > > >>>> > stuff
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> > Corey the Courier
> > > > >>>> > "There is something wrong in a government where they who do
> the
> > > most
> > > > >>>> have
> > > > >>>> > the least. There is something wrong when honesty wears a rag,
> and
> > > > >>>> > rascality
> > > > >>>> > a robe; when the loving, the tender, eat a crust, while the
> > > infamous
> > > > >>>> sit
> > > > >>>> > at
> > > > >>>> > the banquets" -Robert G. Ingersoll.
> > > > >>>> > _______________________________________________
> > > > >>>> > Messengers mailing list
> > > > >>>> > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > >>>> > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> _________________________
> > > > >>>> .  Roy Wilkie
> > > > >>>> :  Deft Courier
> > > > >>>> :. http://deftcourier.com
> > > > >>>> :: (206) 245-8843
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> DC 112*144616*5
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>>> Messengers mailing list
> > > > >>>> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > >>>> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> --
> > > > >>> Julio Saravia
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Julio Saravia
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Messengers mailing list
> > > > >> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > >> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > > > >>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Messengers mailing list
> > > > > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > joel metz : magpie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx : http://www.blackbirdsf.org/
> > > > magpie messenger collective   :    http://magpiemessenger.com/
> > > > ==
> > > >          i know what innocence looks like - and it wasn't there,
> > > >                                after she got that bicycle...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > >  Messengers mailing list
> > > > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Julio Saravia
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Messengers mailing list
> > > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Messengers mailing list
> > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>
> _______________________________________________
> Messengers mailing list
> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>



-- 
Julio Saravia