Re: [messengers] Fw: Use of likeness without permission (epilogue)

Date: 16 Dec 2010 07:18:53 +0100
From: Kevin Stewart <kevinstewy@xxxxxxxxx>


Yeah Kyle, I'd say thats a pretty normal way to view a life thats very
often exploited.

I'd have to agree with almost all of you here. Couriers love the life
they live, and thats why they do it. It sure as hell isn't for the
money. Alex makes a very good point, we really should take control of
this thing, if anybody is going to make a dollar off of an image of a
rider, it should be the rider. Exploitation is rampant in American
culture specific, and hiding behind thousands of loopholes in 200 year
old laws, only adds insult to injury.

If corporations are going to take advantage of you ( and they are ),
making sure that they give you some free shit so that you can host a
race that actually brings folks together and creates community is the
very least they can do.

Having put together a race or two in my day, I know the companies that
support the community, are a much bigger asset to us than those who
simply pose to improve profits.

I have to wonder about Krypto's idea to use the crappy motorcycle in
that link.. wtf?

yeah,

-stewy



On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Kyle Goodmaster
<kyle.goodmaster@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> So you only support something if they give you stuff for free? That's a
> positive and normal way to live.
>
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Stu Louder <louderse@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> All,
>>           Kenda as far as I've seen does not support messengers.  I have
>> yet to see any product given for our communities races or events. (correct
>> me if I'm wrong on that)  The bottom line, at least when I look at
>> companies, is "Do they support Messengers?"  local or other wise.  Has
>> anyone seen a Kenda rep or sponsored rider at any of their events or even at
>> a frequented bar?   It's one thing for Kryptonite to use photos from Kevin
>> because lets face it Kevin and Krypto have given plenty of time and support
>> to the community.  There's even companies that many of our comrades have
>> love hate relationships with.  Chrome for example is quick to use photos for
>> ads and material, but you know they're one of the biggest supporters of ours
>> as well. I'm pretty sure we all have some photos out there being exploited
>> in one way or another.  Maybe in an ad for some big new company, or on some
>> fakengers flyer for suburb sprints.  It's not about legality or morality,
>> It's about us.  Our community, our lives, our rules. Fuck Kenda for not
>> coming out, for not helping out and for not getting truly involved.  Come
>> out, hang out and then we could talk.
>>
>> I support cycling because cycling supports me,
>>                          Stu Louder
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Kyle Goodmaster <
>> kyle.goodmaster@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> kenda nevegal is a great tire. shred the dirt.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:41 AM, Kirk Dungan <happycourier13@xxxxxxxxx
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>> > Funny thing, I never really worked out my feelings as to the incident
>>> that
>>> > started it all but I was ready to support a boycott on Kenda tires as
>>> I'm
>>> > less
>>> > then impressed by their products. Two examples. They made a studded
>>> tire,
>>> > the
>>> > studs had a tungsten carbide tip (you want that) the studs on the bikes
>>> > I've
>>> > seen held up through the winter, including one that saw a lot of
>>> pavement,
>>> > it
>>> > was the rubber bits that didn't fare so well. My beautiful wife's
>>> recumbent
>>> > came
>>> > with their tire, replaced them with Schwable (sp?) Marathons made a huge
>>> > difference I'm twice as likely to borrow her bike on a slow summer sunny
>>> > day.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message ----
>>> > From: Alex Farioletti <gsf.nyc@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> > To: Kevin Dillard <kevindillard@xxxxxxx>
>>> > Cc: messengers@xxxxxxxxx
>>> > Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 10:29:35 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [messengers] Fw: Use of likeness without permission
>>> (epilogue)
>>> >
>>> > i stand corrected. i wasn't bummed to be used on the site, nor was i mad
>>> > that i thought you might have made some money off of some of your hard
>>> > work,
>>> > even if you didn't. yer photogrphay is a great contribution to our
>>> > community
>>> > as well as all the high quality races that you and the demon cats put
>>> > together. i see no problem with the sale and use of messengers imagery
>>> when
>>> > it comes from within the community.
>>> >
>>> > also, we all use kryptos, but who here rides on kendas? i like their
>>> tubes,
>>> > but their tires kinda suck.
>>> >
>>> > the point that i was trying to make is that WE should be taking our own
>>> > photos and selling them with rights and whatever to getty and whatnot.
>>> we
>>> > need to produce more of our own media and stop letting others do it for
>>> us
>>> > and make all the money and tell our stories all wrong.
>>> >
>>> > that's all.
>>> >
>>> > with this big movie coming out and more and more peeps get out of cars
>>> and
>>> > on bikes we are gonna get thrust into the lime light, again. but worse
>>> this
>>> > time. so lets be ready. both Krypto and onguard were in a bidding war
>>> for
>>> > the "don't steal bikes bro" video at interbike, so don't think there
>>> isn't
>>> > ways to monetize messenger content. we just gotta take control of our
>>> > image.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Kevin Dillard <kevindillard@xxxxxxx>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Dillard" <
>>> kevindillard@xxxxxxx
>>> > >
>>> > > To: "Alex Farioletti" <gsf.nyc@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 12:20 AM
>>> > >
>>> > > Subject: Re: [messengers] Use of likeness without permission
>>> (epilogue)
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >  Alex, that photo of you wasn't taking by me, but the photos that
>>> where
>>> > use
>>> > >> from me, where just of the Kryptonite locks, with no recognizable
>>> > >> messengers. and they did compensate me, by giving me a few of locks,
>>> > which I
>>> > >> donated to a local alleycat for prizes here in DC.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> In the years I have been taking photos of alleycat NO ONE has use any
>>> of
>>> > >> my photos for commercial or for business use without my permission
>>> and
>>> > if
>>> > >> some one would or want to use one of my photos, they would first
>>> would
>>> > have
>>> > >> to have my permission than the subject in the photos. if both parties
>>> > don't
>>> > >> agree. then it won't happen.
>>> > >> I will never let anyone use a photo of a messenger without the
>>> messenger
>>> > >> permission, EVER.
>>> > >> I have been a messenger for years, now I work for a company, but the
>>> > love
>>> > >> of our community is strong and would never let anyone take advantage
>>> of
>>> > it.
>>> > >> and so far no one has.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I over the years have tried to document the beauty of our community
>>> for
>>> > >> our community and I hope folks have enjoy the photos as much as I
>>> have
>>> > >> taking them.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Much Love,Kevin
>>> > >> Demon Cats
>>> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Farioletti" <
>>> gsf.nyc@xxxxxxxxx
>>> > >
>>> > >> To: "Tony Ionno" <bikemessenger@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> > >> Cc: <messengers@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 10:42 PM
>>> > >> Subject: Re: [messengers] Use of likeness without permission
>>> (epilogue)
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>  what about this?
>>> > >>> http://www.kryptonitelock.com/EventPromotions/BikeMessenger.aspx
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> just playing a little devils advocate.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> i received no compensation for this at all, signed no release. there
>>> > are
>>> > >>> several distinguishing marks and nothing is blurred. the
>>> photographer
>>> > is
>>> > >>> a
>>> > >>> long standing member of our community who helped organized the
>>> alleycat
>>> > >>> that
>>> > >>> the photo was taken at. maybe i did sign a release when i signed up
>>> for
>>> > >>> the
>>> > >>> alley cat. i don't think i did. anyway do i deserve some swag from
>>> > >>> kryptonite? or the demon cats? not that i'm asking or accusing but
>>> just
>>> > >>> for
>>> > >>> discussions sake, does the photographer and the context of them
>>> > >>> organizing
>>> > >>> the alleycat make a difference morally, ethically or monetarily?
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> --
>>> > >>> Alex Farioletti
>>> > >>> 415.312.1674
>>> > >>> TCBcourier.com <http://www.tcbcourier.com>
>>> > >>> affinitycycles.com <
>>> http://affinitycycles.simple-helix.net/?author=4>
>>> > >>> _______________________________________________
>>> > >>> Messengers mailing list
>>> > >>> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
>>> > >>> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Messengers mailing list
>>> > > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
>>> > > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Alex Farioletti
>>> > 415.312.1674
>>> > TCBcourier.com <http://www.tcbcourier.com>
>>> > affinitycycles.com <http://affinitycycles.simple-helix.net/?author=4>
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Messengers mailing list
>>> > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
>>> > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Messengers mailing list
>>> > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
>>> > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Messengers mailing list
>>> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
>>> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Messengers mailing list
> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>