Re: [messengers] Fw: Use of likeness without permission (epilogue)

Date: 20 Dec 2010 16:27:54 +0100
From: "andy duncan" <mcbstrd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>


   You too ...
   ... and since nobody else said so on the list:
   a somewhat belated Happy big Birthday to Wayne Scott !!!!
   love and peace, AD
   --- scunyun@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
   From: scunyun@xxxxxxxxxx
   To: mcbstrd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
   Subject: Re: [messengers] Fw: Use of likeness without permission
   (epilogue)
   Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 03:55:54 -0800 (PST)
   And often greased cats at that!!!
   HAPPY HOLIDAYS ALL!!!
   -scunny-  ( :-)
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: andy duncan <mcbstrd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
   To: Nick <likeanowl@xxxxxxxxx>
   Cc: Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
   Sent: Mon, December 20, 2010 3:31:46 AM
   Subject: Re: [messengers] Fw: Use of likeness without permission
   (epilogue)
   herding cats ...
   ... and long may it be so!
   love and peace, AD
   --- [1]likeanowl@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
   From: Nick <[2]likeanowl@xxxxxxxxx>
   To: "Messenger IFBMA.org" <[3]Messengers@xxxxxxxxx>
   Subject: Re: [messengers] Fw: Use of likeness without permission
   (epilogue)
   Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 00:12:14 -0800
   It's all well and good. Asking messengers to do anything is like
   herding cats. Everyone needs to step their game up. The future of our
   country is uncertain. Take steps to secure your future. I know I am.
   Nikko
   Seattle
   On Dec 15, 2010, at 10:18 PM, Kevin Stewart <[4]kevinstewy@xxxxxxxxx>
   wrote:
   > Yeah Kyle, I'd say thats a pretty normal way to view a life thats
   very
   > often exploited.
   >
   > I'd have to agree with almost all of you here. Couriers love the life
   > they live, and thats why they do it. It sure as hell isn't for the
   > money. Alex makes a very good point, we really should take control of
   > this thing, if anybody is going to make a dollar off of an image of a
   > rider, it should be the rider. Exploitation is rampant in American
   > culture specific, and hiding behind thousands of loopholes in 200
   year
   > old laws, only adds insult to injury.
   >
   > If corporations are going to take advantage of you ( and they are ),
   > making sure that they give you some free shit so that you can host a
   > race that actually brings folks together and creates community is the
   > very least they can do.
   >
   > Having put together a race or two in my day, I know the companies
   that
   > support the community, are a much bigger asset to us than those who
   > simply pose to improve profits.
   >
   > I have to wonder about Krypto's idea to use the crappy motorcycle in
   > that link.. wtf?
   >
   > yeah,
   >
   > -stewy
   >
   >
   >
   > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Kyle Goodmaster
   > <[5]kyle.goodmaster@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
   >> So you only support something if they give you stuff for free?
   That's a
   >> positive and normal way to live.
   >>
   >> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Stu Louder <[6]louderse@xxxxxxxxx>
   wrote:
   >>
   >>> All,
   >>>          Kenda as far as I've seen does not support messengers.  I
   have
   >>> yet to see any product given for our communities races or events.
   (correct
   >>> me if I'm wrong on that)  The bottom line, at least when I look at
   >>> companies, is "Do they support Messengers?"  local or other wise.
   Has
   >>> anyone seen a Kenda rep or sponsored rider at any of their events
   or even at
   >>> a frequented bar?  It's one thing for Kryptonite to use photos from
   Kevin
   >>> because lets face it Kevin and Krypto have given plenty of time and
   support
   >>> to the community.  There's even companies that many of our comrades
   have
   >>> love hate relationships with.  Chrome for example is quick to use
   photos for
   >>> ads and material, but you know they're one of the biggest
   supporters of ours
   >>> as well. I'm pretty sure we all have some photos out there being
   exploited
   >>> in one way or another.  Maybe in an ad for some big new company, or
   on some
   >>> fakengers flyer for suburb sprints.  It's not about legality or
   morality,
   >>> It's about us.  Our community, our lives, our rules. Fuck Kenda for
   not
   >>> coming out, for not helping out and for not getting truly
   involved.  Come
   >>> out, hang out and then we could talk.
   >>>
   >>> I support cycling because cycling supports me,
   >>>                          Stu Louder
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Kyle Goodmaster <
   >>> [7]kyle.goodmaster@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
   >>>
   >>>> kenda nevegal is a great tire. shred the dirt.
   >>>>
   >>>> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:41 AM, Kirk Dungan
   <[8]happycourier13@xxxxxxxxx
   >>>>> wrote:
   >>>>
   >>>>> Funny thing, I never really worked out my feelings as to the
   incident
   >>>> that
   >>>>> started it all but I was ready to support a boycott on Kenda
   tires as
   >>>> I'm
   >>>>> less
   >>>>> then impressed by their products. Two examples. They made a
   studded
   >>>> tire,
   >>>>> the
   >>>>> studs had a tungsten carbide tip (you want that) the studs on the
   bikes
   >>>>> I've
   >>>>> seen held up through the winter, including one that saw a lot of
   >>>> pavement,
   >>>>> it
   >>>>> was the rubber bits that didn't fare so well. My beautiful wife's
   >>>> recumbent
   >>>>> came
   >>>>> with their tire, replaced them with Schwable (sp?) Marathons made
   a huge
   >>>>> difference I'm twice as likely to borrow her bike on a slow
   summer sunny
   >>>>> day.
   >>>>>
   >>>>>
   >>>>>
   >>>>> ----- Original Message ----
   >>>>> From: Alex Farioletti <[9]gsf.nyc@xxxxxxxxx>
   >>>>> To: Kevin Dillard <[10]kevindillard@xxxxxxx>
   >>>>> Cc: [11]messengers@xxxxxxxxx
   >>>>> Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 10:29:35 PM
   >>>>> Subject: Re: [messengers] Fw: Use of likeness without permission
   >>>> (epilogue)
   >>>>>
   >>>>> i stand corrected. i wasn't bummed to be used on the site, nor
   was i mad
   >>>>> that i thought you might have made some money off of some of your
   hard
   >>>>> work,
   >>>>> even if you didn't. yer photogrphay is a great contribution to
   our
   >>>>> community
   >>>>> as well as all the high quality races that you and the demon cats
   put
   >>>>> together. i see no problem with the sale and use of messengers
   imagery
   >>>> when
   >>>>> it comes from within the community.
   >>>>>
   >>>>> also, we all use kryptos, but who here rides on kendas? i like
   their
   >>>> tubes,
   >>>>> but their tires kinda suck.
   >>>>>
   >>>>> the point that i was trying to make is that WE should be taking
   our own
   >>>>> photos and selling them with rights and whatever to getty and
   whatnot.
   >>>> we
   >>>>> need to produce more of our own media and stop letting others do
   it for
   >>>> us
   >>>>> and make all the money and tell our stories all wrong.
   >>>>>
   >>>>> that's all.
   >>>>>
   >>>>> with this big movie coming out and more and more peeps get out of
   cars
   >>>> and
   >>>>> on bikes we are gonna get thrust into the lime light, again. but
   worse
   >>>> this
   >>>>> time. so lets be ready. both Krypto and onguard were in a bidding
   war
   >>>> for
   >>>>> the "don't steal bikes bro" video at interbike, so don't think
   there
   >>>> isn't
   >>>>> ways to monetize messenger content. we just gotta take control of
   our
   >>>>> image.
   >>>>>
   >>>>>
   >>>>> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Kevin Dillard
   <[12]kevindillard@xxxxxxx>
   >>>>> wrote:
   >>>>>
   >>>>>>
   >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Dillard" <
   >>>> [13]kevindillard@xxxxxxx
   >>>>>>
   >>>>>> To: "Alex Farioletti" <[14]gsf.nyc@xxxxxxxxx>
   >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 12:20 AM
   >>>>>>
   >>>>>> Subject: Re: [messengers] Use of likeness without permission
   >>>> (epilogue)
   >>>>>>
   >>>>>>
   >>>>>>  Alex, that photo of you wasn't taking by me, but the photos
   that
   >>>> where
   >>>>> use
   >>>>>>> from me, where just of the Kryptonite locks, with no
   recognizable
   >>>>>>> messengers. and they did compensate me, by giving me a few of
   locks,
   >>>>> which I
   >>>>>>> donated to a local alleycat for prizes here in DC.
   >>>>>>>
   >>>>>>> In the years I have been taking photos of alleycat NO ONE has
   use any
   >>>> of
   >>>>>>> my photos for commercial or for business use without my
   permission
   >>>> and
   >>>>> if
   >>>>>>> some one would or want to use one of my photos, they would
   first
   >>>> would
   >>>>> have
   >>>>>>> to have my permission than the subject in the photos. if both
   parties
   >>>>> don't
   >>>>>>> agree. then it won't happen.
   >>>>>>> I will never let anyone use a photo of a messenger without the
   >>>> messenger
   >>>>>>> permission, EVER.
   >>>>>>> I have been a messenger for years, now I work for a company,
   but the
   >>>>> love
   >>>>>>> of our community is strong and would never let anyone take
   advantage
   >>>> of
   >>>>> it.
   >>>>>>> and so far no one has.
   >>>>>>>
   >>>>>>> I over the years have tried to document the beauty of our
   community
   >>>> for
   >>>>>>> our community and I hope folks have enjoy the photos as much as
   I
   >>>> have
   >>>>>>> taking them.
   >>>>>>>
   >>>>>>> Much Love,Kevin
   >>>>>>> Demon Cats
   >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Farioletti" <
   >>>> [15]gsf.nyc@xxxxxxxxx
   >>>>>>
   >>>>>>> To: "Tony Ionno" <[16]bikemessenger@xxxxxxxxxxx>
   >>>>>>> Cc: <[17]messengers@xxxxxxxxx>
   >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 10:42 PM
   >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [messengers] Use of likeness without permission
   >>>> (epilogue)
   >>>>>>>
   >>>>>>>
   >>>>>>>  what about this?
   >>>>>>>>
   [18]http://www.kryptonitelock.com/EventPromotions/BikeMessenger.aspx
   >>>>>>>>
   >>>>>>>> just playing a little devils advocate.
   >>>>>>>>
   >>>>>>>> i received no compensation for this at all, signed no release.
   there
   >>>>> are
   >>>>>>>> several distinguishing marks and nothing is blurred. the
   >>>> photographer
   >>>>> is
   >>>>>>>> a
   >>>>>>>> long standing member of our community who helped organized the
   >>>> alleycat
   >>>>>>>> that
   >>>>>>>> the photo was taken at. maybe i did sign a release when i
   signed up
   >>>> for
   >>>>>>>> the
   >>>>>>>> alley cat. i don't think i did. anyway do i deserve some swag
   from
   >>>>>>>> kryptonite? or the demon cats? not that i'm asking or accusing
   but
   >>>> just
   >>>>>>>> for
   >>>>>>>> discussions sake, does the photographer and the context of
   them
   >>>>>>>> organizing
   >>>>>>>> the alleycat make a difference morally, ethically or
   monetarily?
   >>>>>>>>
   >>>>>>>>
   >>>>>>>> --
   >>>>>>>> Alex Farioletti
   >>>>>>>> 415.312.1674
   >>>>>>>> TCBcourier.com <[19]http://www.tcbcourier.com>
   >>>>>>>> affinitycycles.com <
   >>>> [20]http://affinitycycles.simple-helix.net/?author=4>
   >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
   >>>>>>>> Messengers mailing list
   >>>>>>>> [21]Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
   >>>>>>>> [22]http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
   >>>>>>>>
   >>>>>>>>
   >>>>>>>
   >>>>>>
   >>>>>> _______________________________________________
   >>>>>> Messengers mailing list
   >>>>>> [23]Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
   >>>>>> [24]http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
   >>>>>>
   >>>>>
   >>>>>
   >>>>>
   >>>>> --
   >>>>> Alex Farioletti
   >>>>> 415.312.1674
   >>>>> TCBcourier.com <[25]http://www.tcbcourier.com>
   >>>>> affinitycycles.com
   <[26]http://affinitycycles.simple-helix.net/?author=4>
   >>>>> _______________________________________________
   >>>>> Messengers mailing list
   >>>>> [27]Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
   >>>>> [28]http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
   >>>>>
   >>>>>
   >>>>>
   >>>>>
   >>>>> _______________________________________________
   >>>>> Messengers mailing list
   >>>>> [29]Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
   >>>>> [30]http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
   >>>>>
   >>>> _______________________________________________
   >>>> Messengers mailing list
   >>>> [31]Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
   >>>> [32]http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
   >>>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >> _______________________________________________
   >> Messengers mailing list
   >> [33]Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
   >> [34]http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
   >>
   > _______________________________________________
   > Messengers mailing list
   > [35]Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
   > [36]http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
   _______________________________________________
   Messengers mailing list
   [37]Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
   [38]http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
   _____________________________________________________________
   email services provided by trackbike.com, your source for alleycat and
   trackbike photos. submissions welcome.
   _______________________________________________
   Messengers mailing list
   [39]Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
   [40]http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
     __________________________________________________________________

   email services provided by trackbike.com, your source for alleycat and
   trackbike photos. submissions welcome.

References

   1. mailto:likeanowl@xxxxxxxxx
   2. mailto:likeanowl@xxxxxxxxx
   3. mailto:Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
   4. mailto:kevinstewy@xxxxxxxxx
   5. mailto:kyle.goodmaster@xxxxxxxxx
   6. mailto:louderse@xxxxxxxxx
   7. mailto:kyle.goodmaster@xxxxxxxxx
   8. mailto:happycourier13@xxxxxxxxx
   9. mailto:gsf.nyc@xxxxxxxxx
  10. mailto:kevindillard@xxxxxxx
  11. mailto:messengers@xxxxxxxxx
  12. mailto:kevindillard@xxxxxxx
  13. mailto:kevindillard@xxxxxxx
  14. mailto:gsf.nyc@xxxxxxxxx
  15. mailto:gsf.nyc@xxxxxxxxx
  16. mailto:bikemessenger@xxxxxxxxxxx
  17. mailto:messengers@xxxxxxxxx
  18. http://www.kryptonitelock.com/EventPromotions/BikeMessenger.aspx
  19. http://www.tcbcourier.com/
  20. http://affinitycycles.simple-helix.net/?author=4
  21. mailto:Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
  22. http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
  23. mailto:Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
  24. http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
  25. http://www.tcbcourier.com/
  26. http://affinitycycles.simple-helix.net/?author=4
  27. mailto:Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
  28. http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
  29. mailto:Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
  30. http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
  31. mailto:Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
  32. http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
  33. mailto:Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
  34. http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
  35. mailto:Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
  36. http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
  37. mailto:Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
  38. http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
  39. mailto:Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
  40. http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers