Re: [messengers] Toronto Bike courier story

Date: 26 Mar 2011 14:37:59 +0100
From: marmaxcourier@xxxxxxxxx

People in this country are not nearly as desperately impoverished that they would do something so extreme. I would like to think anyway. This specific city counselor is proposing a number of things that are a little out there, for instance putting a red light district on the Toronto Island. Toronto Island is home to a large children's amusement park, beautiful beaches and also residences that are owned by some families that have been there for generations. In my opinion he is trying to gain attention on his "outside the box" ideas. I called his office yesterday in an attempt to set up a meeting before he actively proposed the licenses to council, I'm waiting for a call back. 
Honestly, I don't think this will go too far, but just in case I want to start a dialogue with G. Mammolitti before hand. The bottom line is that it will end up costing the city a lot more to set up and implement than the proposed revenue stream that he expects to get from it. I don't see it being passed any time soon.    

Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Max Biaggi <sunaltahusky@xxxxxxxxx>
Sender: messengers-bounces@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 02:58:55 
Cc: messengers@xxxxxxxxx<messengers@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [messengers] Toronto Bike courier story

The licence plate issue is the same thing that ignited the unrest in Tunisia when the police stopped a university grad from selling fruit without a licence.  He decided to protest his poverty with self immolation.

Need a light?

Sent from my iAmfuked

On 26-Mar-11, at 2:12 AM, Simon McKenzie <mckfrenzy@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Ok Ok I'll bring BikeWise up at the next OH&S meeting. Enough already. Thanks for your help today tho Dodo

On 25/03/2011, at 8:25 PM, Michael Dodd wrote:

There is no money to be made from licensing or registering *couriers*.

As far as registering *cyclists* goes; the administration costs associated
make it an unrealistic proposition, especially after considering the fact
that cyclists save councils money. Compared to automobile specific
infrastructure research has shown that effective cycling infrastructure
delivers a $4 return for every $1 spent.

Cycling is by far the best way to travel short distances and the healthiest
way to travel long. A high level of cycling participation is crucial towards
reducing the safety and congestion issues created by unnecessary motor
vehicle use.

Take Portland for example, Portland introduced the bicycle bill which
requires a minimum of 1% of total highway funding to go to cycling

A major bonus for that city is the statistic that shows, in a city of many
bridges it is the bike traffic that is expanding, while car numbers remain
the same. This means their bridges are still operating as well today for
cars as they did 20 years ago - that's huge for a growing  city trying to
manage transportation." Safety wise Portland's figures are also encouraging,
the number of cycling injuries and incidents are holding steady despite more
cyclists being on the road. Cyclists in Portland today are four times safer
than they were 10 years ago.

As far as having Skilled Messengers on the streets of Toronto goes, it comes
down to having better pay and fairer working conditions, if messengers get
treated better there will be more long term messengers and less transient,
unskilled cyclists working on Toronto's streets. Of course basic training is
still an issue. The City of Sydney provides a free cycling in the city
course, the Course is aimed at people who know how to ride bikes but lack
the confidence to ride in inner city traffic, this course is also available
to rookie couriers (should their company make it compulsory before allowing
them on the streets), it has limitations, but it does teach principles. This
course is partly taught by Veteran couriers, if the city of Toronto would
like to provide such a service to emerging cyclists/messengers I'm sure the
Toronto bicycle messenger association could point them in the right
direction by providing instructors.

Cyclists and couriers are not the danger on our streets, they are however in
close proximity to the danger that is created by automobiles. When you take
automobiles out of the equation streets become safe for people.

Cyclists included.

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Paul Ford <rollingcookie@xxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:

In Calgary it has nothing to do with generating money through licensing the
money is all generated through fines by the police. One of the main factors
that led to plates here was a certain car driver who carries a bike in the
back of his truck ran down a judge and there wife on the sidewalk in front
of the courts. The large companies then threw all there workers under the
wheels (so to speak) and supported the city  plan for plates. In the early
days there were cases where as many as three people were issued the same
number plate at the same time now the plates are controlled by the company.
Cars in Alberta only require a single plate but bike messengers are required
to have two plates visible at all times mounted front and rear subject to a
hundred dollar fine if not mounted in acceptable fashion which depends on
the mood of the officer you deal with. The requirement for plates has been
justified by the city in the past by pointing out that ever since license
plates were introduced the number of complaints specific to messengers has
skyrocketed. I have not received a single ticket on my bike since I stopped
messengering lots of warnings but without plates and a radio no more

Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:10:14 -0700
From: hayward_mw71@xxxxxxxx
To: Messengers@xxxxxxxxx; messvilleto@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [messengers] Toronto Bike courier story

Before that I believe the city of Toronto had a liscence law for car
couriers that involved different plates.  Couriers complained on legal
grounds and the plates were eliminated.

As to cost I cannot imagine what it could be today and right now it is
not even about finding a way to create compliance by bike messengers with
traffic laws but rather an attempt to create a revenue stream for the city.
And seeing as there are less than two hundred messengers in Toronto it
would not be worth their while....

--- On Thu, 3/24/11, Joe Hendry <messvilleto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Joe Hendry <messvilleto@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [messengers] Toronto Bike courier story
To: "Messenger" <Messengers@xxxxxxxxx>
Received: Thursday, March 24, 2011, 3:48 PM

This a lost cause for the city. A licensing system will cost them money
not generate revenue. Over the years the cost of implementing a system is
the number one reason they have never done it.

Back in 1991, the city got as far as drafting a license law. At first
they figured they would need to charge $93 per license to break even for
couriers and $136 for companies. I think the cost kept rising. That would be
much higher 20 years later.

Even the police were against it:

And I can't imagine that the current Mayor is willing to set up a whole
new system to administer it.

This week, I think Mammolitti is just throwing a bunch of shit at the
wall to see if any of it sticks. First he calls for the island to be turned
into a red light district and now this.

--- On Thu, 3/24/11, marmaxcourier@xxxxxxxxx <marmaxcourier@xxxxxxxxx>

From: marmaxcourier@xxxxxxxxx <marmaxcourier@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [messengers] Toronto Bike courier story
To: "C Q" <fixieman@xxxxxxxxx>, messengers-bounces@xxxxxxxxx, "Messenger" <Messengers@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thursday, March 24, 2011, 3:29 PM

Sorry, wrong website. It's actually
Here's the quote...
"We're scraping by as it is, so we don't have the income to be able to
create this revenue for the city,"

This is such a cash grab.
Cyclists of all kinds use the city streets and if you're going to try and
gain revenue, why not go the extra mile and license everyone? *sarcasm*

I think I might start a petition.
Any thoughts?

Marli Epp

Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: C Q <fixieman@xxxxxxxxx>
Sender: messengers-bounces@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:54:39
To: Messenger<Messengers@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [messengers] Toronto Bike courier story

No License in Montreal

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:42 AM, <marmaxcourier@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Any Calgary messengers have an opinion? Vancouver? Aren't you folks
required to have a license?
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Hendry <messvilleto@xxxxxxxxx>
Sender: messengers-bounces@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 07:36:05
To: Messenger list<messengers@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [messengers] Toronto Bike courier story

Any Toronto messengers want to respond to this guy?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Colin D'Mello <ColinM.DMello@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2011/3/24
Subject: Bike Courier story
To: mima@xxxxxxxxxxxxx


I'm doing a story about bike messengers in Toronto. Councillor Giorgio
Mammolitti is floating the idea of attaching licence plates to courier
bikes, as a way to raise money for a cash strapped city.

Is there anyone I would be able to speak with about this?

I'm hoping to do a radio interview today, as soon as possible. You can
either email me back at ColinM.DMello@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx or call my
at 647-822-2856.


Colin D'Mello
City Hall Reporter

Mess media -

Bryant Watch -

Messengers mailing list
Messengers mailing list

Messengers mailing list
Messengers mailing list
Messengers mailing list

Messengers mailing list

Messengers mailing list

Messengers mailing list

Messengers mailing list

Messengers mailing list