Re: [messengers] super mess market / mall mess life / migros mess life / hyper discount mess life / hard discount soon

Date: 19 May 2014 08:34:51 -0000
From: stefan vis <fishmeisterasd@xxxxxxxxx>


Of course if I can I would come. To meet all these old and new friends.
Lausanne was great and I did not race an inch. Just hanging out does good,
and it was great to see such an event for messers. Sponsored by a huge
swiss cheese company. I think their fondue was pretty epic untill some one
lighted off a fireworks bomb.

so no I would not not come. But im not happy to have to move around with
the idea im a messenger outcast because im trying to race and cooperating
with sponsors. This kind of stuff I am too aware off and bugs me very much.
Anyway.

I wish I had enough freedom to make it to mexico. I made a race for them a
while ago while I never been in mexico.

Wish I could be there yes but its not possible. I would if I could.

Hope you guys have fun...
 On May 17, 2014 5:08 PM, "stefan vis" <fishmeisterasd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> May sound like mo. But rather sound like mo then people hating. I can call
> out names too. Its amazing actually.
> On May 17, 2014 4:31 PM, "Andy Zalan" <zalandy@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> fishy-fishy-fish!
>>
>> i like that you have passion. that shit like this makes you say
>> something. i like your opinions. but STOP promising to stop showing up to
>> cmwcs! you are starting to sound like slo mo from berlin... whether you
>> like it or not, whether you show up or not, you are part of the fabric of
>> our community. you've done a lot for us and you are respected tremendously
>> for that. we love you and when you don't come to our parties we are sad.
>> why do you want us to be sad? so many people love you and miss you when you
>> aren't around. fuck the dumb shit, there will always be haters, we just
>> gotta do our thing and have fun doing it. don't let some anonymous
>> jerk-hole keep you from enjoying the fruits of OUR labor! we built this
>> shit, and in some ways, even while new generations come in, we are still
>> the caretakers of this beautiful mess. don't bail on us! don't forget your
>> roots. especially now that you are tearing it up on the race circuit (i am
>> so stoked for your success!!!!), make your sponsors send you to mexico! you
>> weaseled your way out of my "BIG IDEA" i was talk to you about in lausanne
>> - i was too busy to make it happen for this year, but i haven't given up on
>> it. and you are going to help me with it. its gonna be the coolest,
>> biggest, most different courier "event" ever, and i need your next level
>> mess wisdom to pull it off. i'll see you in mexico and we'll talk.
>>
>> be good, fish-man!
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 7:51 AM, stefan vis <fishmeisterasd@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> i think you have a choice.
>>> i feel being judged personally because you name a bunch of companies who
>>> sponsor me.
>>>
>>> not eager to repeat myself. soem people call me lucky. but if i was still
>>> hanging out in bars what would have been my advantage over travelling and
>>> getting support and being a sponsors advertisement.
>>>
>>> please make sure you ban us from your events: and make sure every one
>>> pays
>>> 300 dollar for some days with drunk messengers and a couple of super
>>> eager
>>> racers.
>>>
>>> note: i have talked to cinelli about this and i told them to consider
>>> paying bmef. but i have been with leah for like three weeks as a guest
>>> and
>>> i have seen what kind of shit she gets for accepting a lot of money for
>>> the
>>> bmef.
>>>
>>> i think its time that the messenger world, and i am staying outside of
>>> this
>>> on purpose now because i have proposing a lot of ideas in the past and
>>> for
>>> some reasing it took you guys years to let it cook and make a desicion,
>>> is
>>> gonna look atself and ask why the fuck you never made a good promotion
>>> for
>>> yourself out of these big messenger events. you can party every day of
>>> the
>>> year, including cmwc etc, but why would you keep some of us from
>>> advertising bike messengers and their skills to the world and even hold
>>> back on media coverage sometimes?
>>>
>>> anyway, not wanting to hick up this whole thing again.
>>>
>>> please if you have a problem with any sponsor that supports an event in
>>> any
>>> way, please organize a pre event with your own money and art. dont ask
>>> anyone for prices but give a pack of smokes and a six pack of beer and
>>> buy
>>> everyone a round. and just boycott the big events where we are actually
>>> abled to attract more people and interest them into the job. good for
>>> you.
>>> keep it obscure. or rather keep yourself obscure. fine. its your choice.
>>>
>>> and you know what? i might not even show up anymore. ill just try to go
>>> by
>>> and see people as much as i can and ill see the couple of messers who
>>> like
>>> my kind of racing right there, and hope to see more people come and
>>> support, but at least i will not annoy the fuck out of anyone in my old
>>> world because
>>>
>>> I, met a boy, wearing Vans, 501s,
>>> And a dope Beastie Tee, nipple rings,
>>> New tattoos and claims that he
>>> Was OGT,
>>> back in '92,
>>> from the first EP.
>>>
>>> And in between
>>> Sips of Coke
>>> He told me that
>>> He thought
>>> We were sellin' out,
>>> Layin' down,
>>> Suckin' up
>>> To the man.
>>>
>>> Well now I've got some
>>> Advice for you, little buddy.
>>> Before you point your finger
>>> You should know that
>>> I'm the man,
>>>
>>> And if I'm the man,
>>> Then you're the man, and
>>> He's the man as well so you can
>>> Point that fuckin' finger up your ass.
>>>
>>> All you know about me is what I've sold you,
>>> Dumb fuck.
>>> I sold out long before you ever even heard my name.
>>>
>>> I sold my soul to make a record,
>>> Dip shit,
>>> And then you bought one.
>>>
>>> I've got some
>>> Advice for you, little buddy.
>>> Before you point your finger
>>> You should know that
>>> I'm the man,
>>>
>>> If I'm the fuckin' man
>>> Then you're the fuckin' man as well
>>> So you can
>>> Point that fuckin' finger up your ass.
>>>
>>> All you know about me is what I've sold you,
>>> Dumb fuck.
>>> I sold out long before you ever heard my name.
>>>
>>> I sold my soul to make a record,
>>> Dip shit,
>>> And you bought one.
>>>
>>> All you read and
>>> Wear or see and
>>> Hear on TV
>>> Is a product
>>> Begging for your
>>> Fatass dirty
>>> Dollar
>>>
>>> Shut up and
>>>
>>> Buy, buy, buy, my new record
>>> Buy, buy, buy, send more money
>>> Fuck you, buddy.
>>> Fuck you, buddy.
>>> Fuck you, buddy.
>>> Fuck you, buddy.
>>>
>>> hooker with a penis <http://youtu.be/7fIRo-UtdOU>
>>>
>>>
>>> furthermore i am supported by columbus to be abled to promote an artisan
>>> framebuilder. for the rest you are kind of right. only good talk helps,
>>> and, what are you riding? can you specify your list of shit you wear and
>>> ride and eat? see where they stand in global slavetrade and carbon
>>> footprint... the only way to solve this is to work together and advice.
>>> work together is to make sure the products can be made in better
>>> circumstances. but then again you wont be abled to buy it. its a long
>>> story. even a 40 year old recycled frame needs new parts, from china,
>>> singapore and thailand. at least a lot if cinelli things are still made
>>> in
>>> italy, and other things are made in asia. i rather see it made in taiwan
>>> then china, but yeah... i guess they ghad a good deal. maybe poland can
>>> give them a good deal, or france! oh no we got too expensive. even
>>> bikemessengers are too expensive here, no one gets it.. we dont use fuel?
>>> lets call a car... its cheaper. lets get to the bottom of this... or shal
>>> we just enjoy that cinelli hat while its in your cap collection....
>>> because
>>> thats pretty cool actually.
>>>
>>> sorry i take this personal. but im not feeling very welcome anymore. but
>>> i
>>> cannot complain... i have a great time whatsoever.
>>>
>>> fish
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-05-16 13:11 GMT+02:00 Michael Dodd <mikeydodds@xxxxxxxxx>:
>>>
>>> > After reviewing this discussion it has become clear that we should move
>>> > away from le tour and instead focus on the giro.
>>> >
>>> > Oh look, Cadel.
>>> >
>>> > Mike
>>> >
>>> > Unfortunately sent from an iphone
>>> >
>>> > > On 16 May 2014, at 1:53 pm, nadir olivet <wooracer@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Haha!!!!!
>>> > >
>>> > > Zero
>>> > >
>>> > > --- Original Message ---
>>> > >
>>> > > From: "Andy Zalan" <zalandy@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> > > Sent: 15 May, 2014 10:44 AM
>>> > > Cc: messengers@xxxxxxxxx
>>> > > Subject: Re: [messengers] super mess market / mall mess life / migros
>>> > mess life / hyper discount mess life / hard discount soon
>>> > >
>>> > > ok, i'll bite.
>>> > >
>>> > > - first and foremost, i think once a city wins the right to host a
>>> > > championship, it is entirely up to them how to handle their books,
>>> money
>>> > > and sponsorships. it's nice that people have opinions - messengers
>>> tend
>>> > to
>>> > > have strong ones - but this becomes a case of if you don't like how
>>> it is
>>> > > done, do it yourself.
>>> > >
>>> > > - your point about sponsors wanting the most for least is generally
>>> > correct
>>> > > and shouldn't be surprising to anybody. although i could argue that
>>> most
>>> > > messenger events are sponsored primarily by small, grassroots
>>> companies
>>> > > with direct ties to the mess scene, just in it for the love and not
>>> the
>>> > > money. the cmwc is in reality a quite small, niche event that big
>>> money
>>> > > companies are NOT climbing over each other to throw money at. it may
>>> be
>>> > the
>>> > > most important event on the messenger calendar but it probably draws
>>> less
>>> > > attention than your local farmer's market. so this idea that we
>>> should
>>> > hold
>>> > > out for "real" money is wishful thinking. yes, in the past there have
>>> > been
>>> > > sponsors who forked over significant amounts of actual cash, but
>>> this is
>>> > > very much the exception. my personal experience has been that even
>>> big
>>> > > companies like red bull and cannondale don't want to give cash, only
>>> > > product. i mean, if you have the luxury to choose, of course take the
>>> > > money, but to turn away product based on principle is risking event
>>> > suicide.
>>> > >
>>> > > - caps only cost $1!? $2 with printing? if you really do have a line
>>> on
>>> > $1
>>> > > blank cycling caps, please let us all know, because in all my days of
>>> > > having custom cycling apparel made, i have never seen anything for
>>> much
>>> > > less than $10 per.
>>> > >
>>> > > - i fully appreciate that an organizing committee wants cash and not
>>> to
>>> > be
>>> > > in the business of selling merchandise, but you gotta do what you
>>> gotta
>>> > do.
>>> > > when confronted with the opportunity to be given hundreds of free,
>>> custom
>>> > > made, designed by your bro cycling caps, to do with what you like, in
>>> > > exchange for basically nothing (cinelli is not demanding title
>>> > sponsorship
>>> > > or checkpoint sponsorship or anything), WHY ON EARTH would you turn
>>> this
>>> > > away?
>>> > >
>>> > > - this tax exemption thing you speak of is very interesting. if it is
>>> > true,
>>> > > amazing! wish i knew about it 16 years ago... but somehow i don't
>>> believe
>>> > > that the irs is going to give any cmwc money back for the printing of
>>> > event
>>> > > merchandise. i bet someone like bega would know more about this.
>>> > >
>>> > > - i don't get it. if the cost of the event is $50k, you need to raise
>>> > $50k,
>>> > > no? if you raise $150k you just made $100k. i admit that business
>>> > meetings,
>>> > > accounting and promoting are not my speciality (nor is addition and
>>> > > subtraction), but i still don't follow your math.
>>> > >
>>> > > - hating on the french... i'm giving safa a pass on this one. he was
>>> > > justifiably pissed at and offended by a french guy who said some lame
>>> > shit,
>>> > > so he said some mean shit back. there was some truth to all of it...
>>> i
>>> > > don't know what other contemptful americans you are talking about or
>>> what
>>> > > stats you are referring to when you say most people love the french,
>>> but
>>> > i
>>> > > think you are biased in this matter. in any case, it is best not to
>>> make
>>> > > generalizations.
>>> > >
>>> > > - to say montreal has the best "french content" race shit in canada
>>> is
>>> > not
>>> > > saying much. who is their competition? ottawa? again, just admit you
>>> > have a
>>> > > french bias.
>>> > >
>>> > > - french food: i tried the poutine. sorry, but that shit is NASTY.
>>> > >
>>> > > - as far as leaving a financial trail and openness is concerned, i
>>> agree,
>>> > > it could definitely help, but i also know from personal experience,
>>> that
>>> > > keeping good track of the money for an event like this in a total
>>> > > nightmare. like you said, we're just fucking bike messengers, not
>>> > > accountants and promoters.
>>> > >
>>> > > - as far as corruption, lying, cheating and embezzling, be careful
>>> about
>>> > > pointing fingers. those are some serious accusations and unless you
>>> have
>>> > > some real proof to back it up, you should probably just shut up.
>>> good for
>>> > > you that you made money. really. everybody appreciates the donations
>>> you
>>> > > made with your profits and trust me, all organizers hope to come out
>>> > ahead
>>> > > too. but it usually doesn't work out that way. to say after the fact
>>> "i
>>> > > told you so" is a pretty big dick move. i organized twice and despite
>>> > best
>>> > > intentions, lost money big-time both times. and that happens more
>>> often
>>> > > than not. not by design or intent or incompetence, but because the
>>> event
>>> > > isn't prioritized to make money. the organizers didn't take on the
>>> > > MONUMENTAL (and often thankless) task to get rich. no, they chose to
>>> make
>>> > > the sacrifice of their time, energy and if necessary their own money
>>> to
>>> > do
>>> > > something GREAT. we should all just be thankful. and besides, if
>>> somebody
>>> > > thinks that hosting a cmwc is any way to skim some easy money, they
>>> are
>>> > out
>>> > > of their minds. haha!
>>> > >
>>> > > - and finally i would just suggest, that if you are going to post
>>> such
>>> > > biting critique of members of the messenger community, at least have
>>> the
>>> > > courtesy of taking credit for your comments with your real name, so
>>> all
>>> > of
>>> > > us know exactly who we are typing with here.
>>> > >
>>> > > thank you. have a nice day. see you in mexico very soon!
>>> > >
>>> > > andy zalan
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 10:01 PM, listening quitely <
>>> > > listeningquitely@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >> Hello All, I've tried to stay out of this....Here's me 2 bits, (but
>>> you
>>> > >> guys fighting is getting tiring)
>>> > >>
>>> > >> 1)  Any sponsor wants the most for least. (as do all business, that
>>> is
>>> > >> businesses by nature) That in mind, they account their investment
>>> like
>>> > >> this- whats goes in (from sponsor) must pay out at ruffly investment
>>> > times
>>> > >> 75% or better, (you do the math, you spent all them long days in
>>> > >> school-right) So A Mess Race Events is seen by them as a fad event,
>>> > worth
>>> > >> only small investment, that compounded by event officials (believing
>>> > >> themselves Holier than thou) that are eager, have good intentions
>>> but
>>> > ZERO
>>> > >> to Little:  Accountancy, Promotion and Big Businesses experience and
>>> > with
>>> > >> disregard or lack of skills with Business Meetings and cold calls in
>>> > >> general.
>>> > >> Here's Another way to look at it this...
>>> > >> Hello All, I've tried to stay out of this....Here's me 2 bits, (but
>>> you
>>> > >> guys fighting is getting tiring)
>>> > >>
>>> > >> 1)  Any sponsor wants the most for least. (as do all business, that
>>> is
>>> > >> businesses by nature) That in mind, they account their investment
>>> like
>>> > >> this- whats goes in (from sponsor) must pay out at ruffly investment
>>> > times
>>> > >> 75% or better, (you do the math, you spent all them long days in
>>> > >> school-right) So A Mess Race Events is seen by them as a fad event,
>>> > worth
>>> > >> only small investment, that compounded by event officials (believing
>>> > >> themselves Holier than thou) that are eager, have good intentions
>>> but
>>> > ZERO
>>> > >> to Little:  Accountancy, Promotion and Big Businesses experience and
>>> > with
>>> > >> disregard or lack of skills with Business Meetings and cold calls in
>>> > >> general.
>>> > >> Here's Another way to look at it this...
>>> > >> Cost of event 50,000$
>>> > >> You will need to bring in 150,000$ to pay all you bills, Don't
>>> Believe
>>> > me
>>> > >> , try running an event.
>>> > >> ***So Your Event cost of all goods and services needs to be about
>>> 20% to
>>> > >> 30% of take in (income) or you will lose money. Don't Do Like
>>> Toronto
>>> > and
>>> > >> Tokyo...they didn't listen to me...o-well...
>>> > >> Caps only cost about 1 dollar ca. to make with shipping (orders less
>>> > than
>>> > >> 1000 units), add another dollar to have some volunteers screen print
>>> > event
>>> > >> shit on them. O ya, Maybe their is some couriers reading this-YOU
>>> have
>>> > >> Friends and work contacts that manufacturer, design and print hats
>>> and
>>> > >> other gear... use your heads (so i don't have to start fucking
>>> swearing)
>>> > >> And if you don't know, almost all first world countries have a full
>>> tax
>>> > >> exemption (credit) for advertising , that means its free to produce
>>> > free to
>>> > >> distribute, By definition it has no end user cost, its cost are
>>> factored
>>> > >> into daily business, and are a full right off, no cost to
>>> > anyone...despite
>>> > >> what your lead to believe. Do  the following or fail....USE  a"
>>> > Certified
>>> > >> Accountant"  in good standing or your fucked, not a courier clingon.
>>> > (shit
>>> > >> that sticks)
>>> > >> ***Quick math*** I you give me 500 caps: I cant lease a venue or pay
>>> > fees
>>> > >> to suppliers. Try running a business that only takes caps and
>>> refuses
>>> > cash,
>>> > >> see what happens.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> 2) The French contempt Thing, Please stop bitching! (seems to come
>>> from
>>> > >> the Americans mostly- just saying)
>>> > >> I and Most others love the french, So what if they don't show up on
>>> mass
>>> > >> for meetings, so what they don't get a race, so what ... when they
>>> show
>>> > up
>>> > >> in force, they will be on the other side, and someone else will be
>>> > bitched
>>> > >> at, that's stupid humans for ya.
>>> > >> **** NOTE **** Everyone knows The Quebeckers the Montrealers HAVE
>>> the
>>> > Best
>>> > >> Race Shit happening anyway if your looking for french content. (bars
>>> > open
>>> > >> till 3am and or 6am and later)  To the haters, Feel Free to avoid
>>> the
>>> > >> french , I will gladly keep the french girls to myself. NO PROB.
>>> > Montreal
>>> > >> has a great group of folks, and some good racing.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> O YA their food is better than yours TOO! (say again THEIR FRENCH
>>> FOOD
>>> > is
>>> > >> better)
>>> > >>
>>> > >> 3) Independents is STILL KEY to all things... (lose that , and your
>>> > >> fucked) your work , your play, your race, things will get more
>>> fucked
>>> > the
>>> > >> more you add stupid to it.
>>> > >> If you need a comity to plan shit, you'll have PROBLEMS, do it
>>> > >> yourselves. (ever try dating 10 people at once, its like that)
>>> > >> ***Take Individual Ownership of your shit (event-life-work)
>>> > >> You will end with a wining event or your fault, no fucking blame
>>> > >> elsewhere.
>>> > >> If your community wants to enjoy the event with you: they will, be
>>> real
>>> > >> though, most people want to emulate a courier but they don't want
>>> all
>>> > the
>>> > >> shit that goes with it, they want to look in the window but still
>>> want
>>> > to
>>> > >> go home to their bed at night with clean hands (and no bed bugs)
>>> > >> SO events are geared to us with invites and acceptance of them, keep
>>> > that
>>> > >> in mind before you bitch about sponsors, there is a place in courier
>>> > racing
>>> > >> for sponsors.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> History proves again and again that humans don't and cant work shit
>>> out
>>> > >> together, (or they get tired of the shit and move on) so do your
>>> shit
>>> > your
>>> > >> way, if the world wants and likes it: they will come....if not, ya
>>> know
>>> > for
>>> > >> next time...don't fuck up.
>>> > >> As far as the selling of the "CMWC" name if that's true, It is
>>> another
>>> > of
>>> > >> the most DOUCHE (that would be the far reaches of your private parts
>>> > >> getting cleaned with a 2500psi power washer) moves yet by the board
>>> and
>>> > >> it's incompetent members, it's obviously time for new faces there or
>>> > >> complete dissolution, well since the name is sold there is nothing
>>> left
>>> > of
>>> > >> it anyway, so it is fare Territory to rebuild from scratch and call
>>> it
>>> > what
>>> > >> ever you like..(may i suggest renaming it "Pencil Dick only Tack
>>> > Douches"
>>> > >> Or "Cant figure how to fix my bike so I'll get one with ZERO
>>> abilities")
>>> > >> You new people can feel completely comfortable with dissociating all
>>> > >> cyclist and spectators without thought or regret or any insight to
>>> the
>>> > >> past... also it will have proven my points above.  Its no Big waste
>>> of
>>> > >> twenty five years, it was crap built on the fucking NORBA and UCI
>>> > garbage
>>> > >> anyway. race bodies that have ZERO to DO with couriers and city
>>> cores.
>>> > Not
>>> > >> to mention all the real work that went into it. Oorah
>>> > >>
>>> > >> 4) If comity and community is running the show ...SHOW us the money
>>> > trail,
>>> > >> OPEN ALL Financial records for all events. I know that 1000 eyes on
>>> a
>>> > >> budget can and will find flaws , cheats, outright theft of funding
>>> if
>>> > that
>>> > >> exists?  O that's right Toronto just magically lost all their
>>> documents
>>> > >> related to the Race and funding of the event...no funny business
>>> there
>>> > EH?
>>> > >> ever here of a database, you should all be familiar, you all use one
>>> > >> everyday at work.
>>> > >> As far as Money from events or donations ...it is open to
>>> interpretation
>>> > >> by governance body what the final amount should and or will be
>>> donated
>>> > with
>>> > >> explicit regard to amount, as far a law goes it is only 2% by law in
>>> > USA,
>>> > >> and only between 2% to 4% in Canada enforceable by very limited
>>> laws.
>>> > So if
>>> > >> you want to be a thief that's the clearest way to get involved.
>>> > Legalized
>>> > >> thievery. So if an individual wants to pay out 2% and pay the rest
>>> to
>>> > his
>>> > >> or her self and or buddies that is an accepted practice of all
>>> business
>>> > >> including business interactions with all levels of government. GET
>>> USED
>>> > TO
>>> > >> IT (stop bitching) or get your self in government and make the
>>> changes.
>>> > Or
>>> > >> things will stays the same...as they are now.
>>> > >> ****  YOUR SHEEP OR YOU DEFINE YOUR ENVIRONMENT, choose.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I have said these things before, others have said same, year after
>>> year
>>> > >> same fight.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Get your gear made at home, local, for that matter build copamies to
>>> > >> service the couriers...
>>> > >>  On Wednesday, May 14, 2014 9:55:52 PM, listening quitely <
>>> > >> listeningquitely@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> > >>    On Wednesday, May 14, 2014 9:46:02 PM, listening quitely <
>>> > >> listeningquitely@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Hello All, I've tried to stay out of this....Here's me 2 bits, (but
>>> you
>>> > >> guys fighting is getting tiring)
>>> > >>
>>> > >> 1)  Any sponsor wants the most for least. (as do all business, that
>>> is
>>> > >> businesses by nature) That in mind, they account their investment
>>> like
>>> > >> this- whats goes in (from sponsor) must pay out at ruffly investment
>>> > times
>>> > >> 75% or better, (you do the math, you spent all them long days in
>>> > >> school-right) So A Mess Race Events is seen by them as a fad event,
>>> > worth
>>> > >> only small investment, that compounded by event officials (believing
>>> > >> themselves Holier than thou) that are eager, have good intentions
>>> but
>>> > ZERO
>>> > >> to Little:  Accountancy, Promotion and Big Businesses experience and
>>> > with
>>> > >> disregard or lack of skills with Business Meetings and cold calls in
>>> > >> general.
>>> > >> Here's Another way to look at it this...
>>> > >> Cost of event 50,000$
>>> > >> You will need to bring in 150,000$ to pay all you bills, Don't
>>> Believe
>>> > me
>>> > >> , try running an event.
>>> > >> ***So Your Event cost of all goods and services needs to be about
>>> 20% to
>>> > >> 30% of take in (income) or you will lose money. Don't Do Like
>>> Toronto
>>> > and
>>> > >> Tokyo...they didn't listen to me...o-well...
>>> > >> Caps only cost about 1 dollar ca. to make with shipping (orders less
>>> > than
>>> > >> 1000 units), add another dollar to have some volunteers screen print
>>> > event
>>> > >> shit on them. O ya, Maybe their is some couriers reading this-YOU
>>> have
>>> > >> Friends and work contacts that manufacturer, design and print hats
>>> and
>>> > >> other gear... use your heads (so i don't have to start fucking
>>> swearing)
>>> > >> And if you don't know, almost all first world countries have a full
>>> tax
>>> > >> exemption (credit) for advertising , that means its free to produce
>>> > free to
>>> > >> distribute, By definition it has no end user cost, its cost are
>>> factored
>>> > >> into daily business, and are a full right off, no cost to
>>> > anyone...despite
>>> > >> what your lead to believe.
>>> > >> Do  the following or fail....USE  a" Certified Accountant"  in good
>>> > >> standing or your fucked, not a courier clingon. (shit that sticks)
>>> > >> ***Quick math*** You give me 500 caps: I cant lease a venue or pay
>>> fees
>>> > >> to suppliers.
>>> > >> Try running a business that only takes caps and refuses cash, see
>>> what
>>> > >> happens.
>>> > >> I will say again caps are paid fully throughout the supply chain and
>>> > have
>>> > >> no financials cost to: owner, producer, manufacturer, shipper,
>>> dealer.
>>> > they
>>> > >> get a full tax reimbursement for these items. So CAPS equal
>>> nothing. for
>>> > >> those not understanding CAPS have ZERO value and add Zero value to
>>> your
>>> > >> event, Instead the sponsor should be allowed after cash
>>> payment-fee's,
>>> > to
>>> > >> sell their wears and gear, simple. Don't be a gimp, don't just take
>>> > because
>>> > >> you think its free. That ends in diluting everyone involved. There
>>> is an
>>> > >> old saying "Sucker Born Every Minute"
>>> > >>
>>> > >> 2) The French contempt Thing, Please stop bitching! (seems to come
>>> from
>>> > >> the Americans mostly- just saying)
>>> > >> I and Most others love the french, So what if they don't show up on
>>> mass
>>> > >> for meetings, so what they don't get a race, so what ... when they
>>> show
>>> > up
>>> > >> in force, they will be on the other side, and someone else will be
>>> > bitched
>>> > >> at, that's stupid humans for ya.
>>> > >> **** NOTE **** Everyone knows The Quebeckers the Montrealers HAVE
>>> the
>>> > Best
>>> > >> Race Shit happening anyway if your looking for french content. (bars
>>> > open
>>> > >> till 3am and or 6am and later and REAL bike lanes like in EUROPA)
>>>  To
>>> > the
>>> > >> haters, Feel Free to avoid the french , I will gladly keep the
>>> french
>>> > girls
>>> > >> to myself. NO PROB.
>>> > >> Montreal has a great group of folks, and some good racing.
>>> > >> O YA their food is better than yours TOO! (say again THEIR FRENCH
>>> FOOD
>>> > is
>>> > >> better)
>>> > >>
>>> > >> 3) Independents is STILL KEY to all things... (lose that , and your
>>> > >> fucked) your work , your play, your race, things will get more
>>> fucked
>>> > the
>>> > >> more you add stupid to it.
>>> > >> If you need a comity to plan shit, you'll have PROBLEMS, do it
>>> > >> yourselves. (ever try dating 10 people at once, its like that)
>>> > >> ***Take Individual Ownership of your shit (event-life-work)
>>> > >> You will end with a wining event or your fault, no fucking blame
>>> > >> elsewhere.
>>> > >> If your community wants to enjoy the event with you: they will, be
>>> real
>>> > >> though, most people want to emulate a courier but they don't want
>>> all
>>> > the
>>> > >> shit that goes with it, they want to look in the window but still
>>> want
>>> > to
>>> > >> go home to their bed at night with clean hands (and no bed bugs)
>>> > >> SO events are geared to us with invites and acceptance of them, keep
>>> > that
>>> > >> in mind before you bitch about "real sponsors", there is a place in
>>> > courier
>>> > >> racing for sponsors. (even cheap ass ones)
>>> > >>
>>> > >> History proves again and again that humans don't and cant work shit
>>> out
>>> > >> together, (or they get tired of the shit and move on) so do your
>>> shit
>>> > your
>>> > >> way, if the world wants and likes it: they will come....if not, ya
>>> know
>>> > for
>>> > >> next time...don't fuck up.
>>> > >> As far as the selling of the "CMWC" name if that's true, It is
>>> another
>>> > of
>>> > >> the most DOUCHE (that would be the far reaches of your private parts
>>> > >> getting cleaned with a 2500psi power washer) moves yet by the board
>>> and
>>> > >> it's incompetent members, it's obviously time for new faces there or
>>> > >> complete dissolution, well since the name is sold there is nothing
>>> left
>>> > of
>>> > >> it anyway, so it is fare Territory to rebuild from scratch and call
>>> it
>>> > what
>>> > >> ever you like..(may i suggest renaming it "Pencil Dick only Tack
>>> > Douches"
>>> > >> Or "Cant figure how to fix my bike so I'll get one with ZERO
>>> abilities"
>>> > >> LMAO-sorry, you know who you are) Hey fixxie where you gonna be
>>> after
>>> > one
>>> > >> of my 1200kms rides over three days. See ya clinging to a mud patty
>>> at
>>> > the
>>> > >> side of the road.
>>> > >> You new people can feel completely comfortable with dissociating all
>>> > >> cyclist, sponsors and spectators  without thought or regret or any
>>> > insight
>>> > >> to the past... also it will have proven my points above.  Its no Big
>>> > waste
>>> > >> of twenty five years, it was crap built on the fucking NORBA and UCI
>>> > >> garbage anyway. race bodies that have ZERO to DO with couriers and
>>> city
>>> > >> cores. Not to mention all the real work that went into it. *Oorah*
>>> > >>
>>> > >> 4) If comity and community is running the show ...SHOW us the money
>>> > trail,
>>> > >> OPEN ALL Financial records for all events. I know that 1000 eyes on
>>> a
>>> > >> budget can and will find flaws, ways to save, cheats and outright
>>> theft
>>> > of
>>> > >> funding if that exists?  O that's right Toronto just magically lost
>>> all
>>> > >> their documents related to the Race and funding of the event...no
>>> funny
>>> > >> business there EH? ever here of a database, you should all be
>>> familiar,
>>> > you
>>> > >> all use one everyday at work.
>>> > >> As far as Money from events or donations ...it is open to
>>> interpretation
>>> > >> by governance body what the final amount should and or will be
>>> donated
>>> > with
>>> > >> explicit regard to amount, as far a law goes it is only 2% by law in
>>> > USA,
>>> > >> and only between 2% to 4% in Canada enforceable by very limited
>>> laws.
>>> > So if
>>> > >> you want to be a thief that's the clearest way to get involved in
>>> > Legalized
>>> > >> thievery. So if an individual wants to pay out 2% and pay the rest
>>> > (98%) to
>>> > >> his or her self and or buddies that is an accepted practice of all
>>> > business
>>> > >> including business interactions with all levels of government. GET
>>> USED
>>> > TO
>>> > >> IT (stop bitching) or get your self in government and make the
>>> changes.
>>> > Or
>>> > >> things will stays the same...as they are now.
>>> > >> ****  YOU ARE SHEEP OR YOU DEFINE YOUR ENVIRONMENT,
>>> > >> choose.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I have said these things before, others have said same, year after
>>> year
>>> > >> same fight.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Get your gear made at home, local, for that matter build companies
>>> to
>>> > >> service the couriers and communities.
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Messengers mailing list
>>> > > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
>>> > > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Messengers mailing list
>>> > > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
>>> > > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Messengers mailing list
>>> > Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
>>> > http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Messengers mailing list
>>> Messengers@xxxxxxxxx
>>> http://ifbma.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/messengers
>>>
>>
>>